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Eoin Morgan

BoyBrumby

Englishman
It doesn't quite sit right with me, I have to say.

I don't blame Morgan at all, any sportsman worth his salt will want to play at the highest level & that is currently denied him should he remain true to his native land, but us selecting him for a format that he can represent Ireland in seems not quite, well, cricket.
 

rivera213

U19 Vice-Captain
It doesn't quite sit right with me, I have to say.

I don't blame Morgan at all, any sportsman worth his salt will want to play at the highest level & that is currently denied him should he remain true to his native land, but us selecting him for a format that he can represent Ireland in seems not quite, well, cricket.
I'm sure the ECB have touted him for the longer form of the game though. Morgan certainly is looking at his ODI call-up to be a step towards tests.

I just hope he doesn't flop. Ed Joyce was compared to David Gower by some and Morgan is being compared to Graham Thorpe. Let's hope Morgan ends up with a record like Thorpe's.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I struggle to believe that any of the top sides would turn a player down who they felt would improve their side. It's all well and good attacking the ECB for this, but would another team do the same in the same circumstances? Yes, IMO.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
I struggle to believe that any of the top sides would turn a player down who they felt would improve their side. It's all well and good attacking the ECB for this, but would another team do the same in the same circumstances? Yes, IMO.
Can't remember another major side ever doing so since apartheid ended, it's become increasingly routine for England though. And anyway there were numerous alternatives to Morgan.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yeah but how many of the other sides have an associate neighbour with players good enough to get into their side?
 

andruid

Cricketer Of The Year
Exactly.

Tony Greig, Allan Lamb, Robin Smith, Basil D'Olivera, Graeme Hick all players who would've represented their country of birth had they had the opportunity.

KP is different since he would easily get into the SA side.

Andy Caddick too would've got into the NZ side if he wanted.

Simply if Eoin Morgan does well, he'll be "English". If/when he goes on a run of poor scores, he'll be "that Irish bloke who plays for us". Pietersen still gets that from select morons.
Yeah but how many of the other sides have an associate neighbour with players good enough to get into their side?
You people are missing the point by focusing on whether he wants to play for England or not and if he is good enough. The issue here is why can he play for England in ODIs within weeks of playing for Ireland in ODIs, when if the situation were reversed he would have to wait four years after playing for England to have permission to play for Ireland

*resists temptaion to add a whole line of :ranting: smileys*
 
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Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Can't remember another major side ever doing so since apartheid ended, it's become increasingly routine for England though. And anyway there were numerous alternatives to Morgan.
Grant Elliott, Brendan Nash, and there are probably a lot more when someone who can be arsed to do some research turns up.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
Yeah but how many of the other sides have an associate neighbour with players good enough to get into their side?
Fair point, but do you not think England are taking advantage of poor legislation? This is Sport, it's about more than winning, it's about pride, especially with national sides. How proud would you feel if one day in the future a bunch of South Africans and an Irishman win a game for England? "That's our boy Johan bashing the Aussies, born and bred around the mines of Kimberley..." not quite the same is it? The team's becoming a team of mercenaries. I'm not being xenophobic, it's just that well, it's just not cricket, it's almost like the national side's being turned into a franchise. And more importantly England are reaping the rewards of the Irish Board's work.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
You people are missing the point by focusing on whether he wants to play for England or not and if he is good enough. The issue here is why can he play for England in ODIs within weeks of playing for Ireland in ODIs, when if the situation were reversed he would have to wait four years after playing for England to have permission to play for Ireland
Well that is an issue (and no-one has disputed that there's an inequity there which isn't at first sight easy to justify) but not the only issue. The issue in the original post was that England lacked moral fibre for selecting him despite Ireland having spent time and money on his development (etc).
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Fair point, but do you not think England are taking advantage of poor legislation?
They'd be negligent not to do so, if the legislation is there to be exploited and a legitimate advantage could be gained that way.

How proud would you feel if one day in the future a bunch of South Africans and an Irishman win a game for England? "That's our boy Johan bashing the Aussies, born and bred around the mines of Kimberley..." not quite the same is it?
I felt pretty proud when Robin Smith was hitting 167 v Australia in 1993 (we still lost the game mind you). And when Devon Malcolm got 9 wickets v South Africa in 1994. And when Andy Caddick bowled the Windies out for 47 in 2000. And when Duncan Fletcher and Troy Cooley masterminded our Ashes triumph in 2005. And so on, and on and on.

When it comes down to it, I couldn't really give a monkey's where someone is born provided they are committed to the cause when they play for us.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Yep. Exactly. Pietersen fills me with pride with every century he scores, I don't care where he was brought up
 

James_W

U19 Vice-Captain
I don't see Morgan as a 'traitor' or anything of the sort, he just has ambition to play at the top level. What is hard to take is that he is one of the few bright sparks we have, and we really need all the talent we can get our hands on. Unfortunately he's going to be another Ed Joyce- play a few ODI's, do alright while not spectacular, and get replaced by Ian Bell or some other plonk who's had unlimited chances, and never be heard of again. A star of Irish cricket will just become another goodish county player who always seems to be near national selection, but never quite gets there. I think if England thought he could genuinely do better than the likes of Shah, Bopara, Bell and Collingwood I could accept it, but it seems they're just taking him for the sake of it. Meh.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
That post above raises a fair point. I always felt sorry for Joyce once it became clear he wasn't going to truly make it for England
 

stumpski

International Captain
Some interesting arguments on here. What's clear is that Morgan sees himself as a Middlesex player first and an Ireland player second - they pay his wages after all (like RTD at Essex), so qualifying for England is the logical progression. I dare say that if there were a Namibian player good enough to play for South Africa, or a Papuan good enough for Australia, they'd do likewise. And I'd have more sympathy for Ireland if they hadn't recruited half their squad from southern hemisphere countries. If I have any objection to Morgan, it's just that I don't think he's a particularly good player, but if he wants to take the risk (and Ed Joyce can tell him about that), then good luck to him. Incidentally, will Joyce re-qualify for Ireland in time for the next World Cup? I have a feeling it'll be just too soon under the four year rule.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
It isn't xenophobia on my part (I hope), I'm as proud a Pom as the next man and, with my heritage, I'm certainly not going to knock any Irishmen coming to England to work.

I don't think yer Smiths, Nashs, Patels, Pietersens, Robin Singhs etc are strictly comparable tho. They've all moved from one test nation to another for whatever reason. By us selecting Morgan (or Joyce or Amjad) we're effecitvely punishing associates for producing quality players. I suspect other countries would do the same if they had the chance too, so it's more of a systemic failure.

My compromise suggestion is letting associate players remain available for their home nations in ODIs & T20Is, whilst being eligible for England (or any other test nation with the appropriate residential qualification satisfied) for tests. It's not ideal, but it is workable.
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Exactly.

Tony Greig, Allan Lamb, Robin Smith, Basil D'Olivera, Graeme Hick all players who would've represented their country of birth had they had the opportunity.

KP is different since he would easily get into the SA side.


Andy Caddick too would've got into the NZ side if he wanted.

Simply if Eoin Morgan does well, he'll be "English". If/when he goes on a run of poor scores, he'll be "that Irish bloke who plays for us". Pietersen still gets that from select morons.
He would now, but when he came over to the UK and started at Notts he wasn't one of the best batsmen in the world.
The fact he was dropped from the Natal side, due to quota or other reasons, was part of the reason he sought out moving to the UK.
 

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