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Thread: WI all time XI vs Aus all time XI

  1. #1
    Cricketer Of The Year stephen's Avatar
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    WI all time XI vs Aus all time XI

    I'm sure that this topic has been done before, but what would a WIndies all time XI look like, and what would an Aus all time XI look like, and who would win?

    WI:

    Greenidge
    Haynes
    Headley
    Lara
    Richards (c)
    Sobers
    Dujon
    Marshall
    Garner
    Holding
    Ambrose

    12th Lance Gibbs

    The best opening batting combination from the WI sticks together, followed by the black Bradman, the all time highest run scorer, Viv Richards and rounding out the batting Sobers, who also provides a spin option. Dujon gets the gloves. The four bowlers picked are Marshall, Garner, Holding and Ambrose, who are the probably the best four WI quicks. 12th man is Lance Gibbs, who comes in for Holding on turning decks.

    Aus:

    Hayden
    Trumper
    Bradman
    G Chappell
    Miller (c)
    Ponting
    Gilchrist
    Warne
    Davidson
    Lillee
    McGrath

    12th Waugh

    Hayden and Trumper are arguably Australia's two finest openers, both excelling in different conditions. Bradman in at #3, followed by the class of Chappell, the all round talents of Miller with possibly Australia's second best batsman ever coming in at 6 in the form of Ponting. Gilchrist comes in to keep and score runs, while Warne, Davidson, Lillee and McGrath make up the bowlers. I went with Davidson as my 3rd quick due to both his exceptional record and variety. Waugh is 12th man, coming in for any batsman who doesn't perform.

    Of the two sides, I would certainly say that the WI side is more intimidating to face, though would certainly be weaker on spinning tracks. Australia's openers are marginally better in my opinion. The middle order is harder to split. While Bradman is the best of the batsmen by far, Sobers, Lara, Richards and Headley are better than the rest of the Aussie batsmen. However, you would also need to account for the fact that Gilchrist was far better than Dujon as a batsman. Ultimately I would give this to the WI. Taking the openers into account, I would give it marginally to the WI batting lineup.

    The keepers are both among the best ever (as pure keepers), though Dujon was marginally better.

    The bowling lineup is a difficult one to separate. Warne certainly provides Australia with more of an ability to take wickets in the third and forth innings and provides better balance to the attack than Sobers does to the WI attack. Marshall is probably the best of the quicks, followed by McGrath. Ambrose, Garner, Lillee are all inseperable, with Miller and Davidson being ever so slightly behind this pack. One would imagine that the WI attack would be better in the first innings, while Australia's would be better in the second.

    Ultimately I would say that the difference between these two teams would ultimately be a combination of the toss and the wicket. I think the WI would be ever so slightly ahead, though in a five match series I think Australia would definately win some games.

    3-2 WI in a five match series IMO.

    What do you all think?

  2. #2
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    I think Lindwall was considered better than Davidson traditionally. Also, having Haynes in the side is an odd fit considering batsmen of the caliber of Walcott and Worrell wait in the wings. But I agree, slight edge to West Indies.

  3. #3
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Five is too high for Miller in an all-time XI IMO. I'd at least swap Ponting with him. Maybe include another specialist at 6 given the Windies pace attack (I'd plumb for Border, given his good record v them in the 80s) and have only one of Miller and Davo as well.

    Would be a wonderful match up though, wouldn't it? Outcome would depend IMO on where it was played and what the playing conditions were as well. That Windies line up may struggle to get through 90 overs a day. Then again, they may well have done so if they had to.
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    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    Tough to pick. Many questions to ponder.

    For Australia the opening combination faces uncertainty. How would Trumper fair against the more modern day paceman? Does Hayden have the technique to combat world class bowlers?

    The middle order for Australia would cope well. Bradman, Chappell, Miller and Ponting, all terrific players of pace bowling. I would imagine such a brilliant puller of the ball in Ponting would enjoy 2-3 bumpers per over.

    The West Indies opening combination are proven. Greenidge and Haynes combated and dominated some of the finest pace bowlers of all time. Lillee, McGrath, Miller and Davidson are class, but two openers are up to the task.

    Headley, Lara, Richards and Sobers. Could there be a more imposing middle order? How much of an impact would Warne have? He holds the key to dismantling this line-up.

    This hypothetical series is tough to pick. The Australian team is more well rounded, and yet the West Indies may just simply be too good. If the pitches suit the pace bowlers, then West Indies win 3-2. Spin bowlers tracks, Australia wins 2-1. Flat wickets, West Indies win 2-1.


  5. #5
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
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    West Indies may be most known for it's pace bowling but the strength in the batting is increadible if you consider that none of the 3 W's were included in that list and not really unfairly, although would have liked to have got Weekes in their at least.

  6. #6
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    That Windies line up may struggle to get through 90 overs a day.
    they probably won't struggle to take wickets though, that lineup might not need to bowl 90 overs in an innings...

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    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    I think, given the Windies poor form against the might of such spinning sensations as Allan Border and Peter Taylor, that Shane Warne would have a big impact.
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    International Debutant Slifer's Avatar
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    I would give Australia the edge not because of ne Shane Warne factor but because of their superior batting depth. However this is assuming that Miller does not come in at 5 in fact I'd leave out Miller altogether:

    Hayden
    Lawry
    Bradman
    Ponting
    G Chappell
    S Waugh*
    A Gilchrist+
    A Davidson
    S Warne
    D Lillee
    G Mcgrath
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  9. #9
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    they probably won't struggle to take wickets though, that lineup might not need to bowl 90 overs in an innings...
    Yeah, a fair point that

    I remember a few years ago they did a computer simulation of an all time Aus XI v an all time England XI during one of the Ashes series, and displayed the results on the scoreboard at the SCG during the test.

    The results were farcical because:
    1. England won; and
    2. Bradman was dismissed cheaply twice in the one match.

    I think the programmer might have been employed by the MCC.
    Last edited by Burgey; 29-04-2009 at 11:23 PM.

  10. #10
    International Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I think the programmer might have been employed by the MCC.
    agree, beyond reasonable doubt

  11. #11
    Cricketer Of The Year stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    I would give Australia the edge not because of ne Shane Warne factor but because of their superior batting depth. However this is assuming that Miller does not come in at 5 in fact I'd leave out Miller altogether:

    Hayden
    Lawry
    Bradman
    Ponting
    G Chappell
    S Waugh*
    A Gilchrist+
    A Davidson
    S Warne
    D Lillee
    G Mcgrath
    The issue I have with this lineup is that there is no world class allrounder. There is a great reliance on the top 3 quicks to do the damage. Miller does massively strengthen the bowling attack, though at the potential cost of 20 odd runs per innings.

    Yet, Miller was the kind of player who stepped up for the big occasions so I believe that would have happened in this case too.

    I really do like the idea of both Waugh and Border in the side, but given Border's mid-20s average vs the WIndies and the lack of space in the team it would be tough to fit them in.

    The other real option is to bring Ponting in to open and have Waugh and Miller down the order.

  12. #12
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    The issue I have with this lineup is that there is no world class allrounder. There is a great reliance on the top 3 quicks to do the damage. Miller does massively strengthen the bowling attack, though at the potential cost of 20 odd runs per innings.

    Yet, Miller was the kind of player who stepped up for the big occasions so I believe that would have happened in this case too.

    I really do like the idea of both Waugh and Border in the side, but given Border's mid-20s average vs the WIndies and the lack of space in the team it would be tough to fit them in.

    The other real option is to bring Ponting in to open and have Waugh and Miller down the order.

    v West Indies 1979-1993 31 2052 126 39.46

    in Australia 1979-1993 21 1256 126 33.94

    in West Indies 1984-1991 10 796 100* 53.06

  13. #13
    Cricketer Of The Year stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    West Indies may be most known for it's pace bowling but the strength in the batting is increadible if you consider that none of the 3 W's were included in that list and not really unfairly, although would have liked to have got Weekes in their at least.
    Yeah that's what surprised me when I was compiling the teams.

    I simply could not drop any of the middle order batsmen (Headley, Lara, Richards and Sobers) to fit in Weekes, Worrell or Walcott.

    The only weakness in the batting really is Haynes and he's not exactly a huge weakness.

    Australia was almost, but not quite as bad. Only really Waugh and Border were in contention for the middle order, though Lawry and Simpson both had good claims for the openers position.

    Picking the bowlers was a cinch for the WIndies, with all four picking themselves.

    It was slightly harder on the 4th bowler option for Australia. Any of O'Reilly, Grimmett, Davidson and Lindwall had strong claims. On a turner I'd almost certainly have picked O'Reilly over Davidson. Overall though I thought Davidson would be the better pick, as he provides much needed variety.

  14. #14
    Cricketer Of The Year stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    v West Indies 1979-1993 31 2052 126 39.46

    in Australia 1979-1993 21 1256 126 33.94

    in West Indies 1984-1991 10 796 100* 53.06
    I stand corrected. I must have been thinking of another player.

    I knew his record vs the WIndies was significantly worse than vs other teams though.

  15. #15
    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    v West Indies 1979-1993 31 2052 126 39.46

    in Australia 1979-1993 21 1256 126 33.94

    in West Indies 1984-1991 10 796 100* 53.06
    Was just about to post the exact same statistic. Border was one of the few batsman who could stand up against the great 80's West Indian pace attacks. If you where selecting the greatest Australian XI to play the West Indies, Border would almost be first selection.

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