***Official*** West Indies in England

[DaRick]

I don't think he'll be ripping through the lineup but people have been suggesting that Ponting and Symonds/Watson will take him apart.. I really don't think that'll happen.

No, they'd be ill-advised to attack Swann as readily as they did Harris. Johnson may try to, though.

 

[Athlai]

Indeed, and Swann's a better bowler than Harris, so I don't think the whole "the Australians will target Swann and he'll go the journey" thing really has much merit.

I don't think he'll be ripping through the lineup but people have been suggesting that Ponting and Symonds/Watson will take him apart.. I really don't think that'll happen.

I think controlled aggression against Swann is the best bet. If you go after him he has a big enough arsenal to take your wicket, and if you sit on him then he gets an opportunity to work you over. So hit the occasional ball for four and work the singles and you negate his impact. Harris on the other hand seems to prefer players scoring against him and he sneaks in the odd ball to look for a wicket. If you sit on him you're more likely to spot it, while if you're scoring at a decent lick the quick tempo of his game can lure you in. Will be interesting to see how the Aussies approach Swann.

 

[oitoitoi]

I think controlled aggression against Swann is the best bet. If you go after him he has a big enough arsenal to take your wicket, and if you sit on him then he gets an opportunity to work you over. So hit the occasional ball for four and work the singles and you negate his impact. Harris on the other hand seems to prefer players scoring against him and he sneaks in the odd ball to look for a wicket. If you sit on him you're more likely to spot it, while if you're scoring at a decent lick the quick tempo of his game can lure you in. Will be interesting to see how the Aussies approach Swann.

Personally i think Harris is underrated a bit, true he prefers it when batsmen are going after him, but when they aren't he's very good at containing them which applies a lot of pressure. Bare in mind Swann's only had success against the West Indies so far (he wasn't really effective in India, but so few foreign spinners are) who are fairly abject against spin, they provided a massive boost to Monty's mediocre numbers. The Aussies will go after him, and they've only really struggled against offies who've had the doosra which Swann doesn't bowl, so it will be an interesting contest.

 

[TT Boy]

Make what you want of it but just heard on Talksport that Chris Gayle will fly back to South Africa, play two games in the IPL, then fly back to England on the eve of the second test.

 

[Prince EWS]

Make what you want of it but just heard on Talksport that Chris Gayle will fly back to South Africa, play two games in the IPL, then fly back to England on the eve of the second test.

 

[Manee]

Make what you want of it but just heard on Talksport that Chris Gayle will fly back to South Africa, play two games in the IPL, then fly back to England on the eve of the second test.

 

[tooextracool]

Watching Onions bowl today for the first time has been consistent with all the reports I'd heard of him beforehand...ie half decent when he gets it right but tends to bowl a lot of crap

I quite like what I have seen from Onions so far actually. He doesnt have anything special about him, but he gets close to the wickets when he bowls and bowls good lengths. I think his lines strayed consistently during the game, but he was still comfortably the best pace bowler in the England side. He bowls wicket to wicket which is essential because hes constantly making the batsman play as if they miss they will be back in the pavillion.

The things that bother me about Onions is his follow through with his head looking down, which is probably what results in his slightly wayward bowling, and his pace. However, I might go as far as saying that he has to be one of the best picks made over the last few years by the England selectors. I would have to monitor him on the flatter wickets to make a full judgment of him, but I do like what I see off him so far.

Anderson and Broad could learn a thing from him about bowling the right lengths from Onions. Anderson was comfortably worse than Broad this game, and Im quite disappointed after what had been a promising winter that he consistently bowled far too short for someone of his ability and bowling style. He has always been a swing bowler and I wish he would continue to pitch the ball up and look for swing particularly on these types of wickets at home.

 

[oitoitoi]

England bowlers have been obsessed with bowling back of a length and trying to bowl the short stuff to intimidate batsmen over the last couple of years, I think it's some sort of ego thing, apart from Flintoff none of them are really quick enough to do it, they're all pitch it up swing bowlers, they just don't pitch it up enough. Maybe the fancy themselves as the new 80's Windies?

 

[Uppercut]

Indeed, and Swann's a better bowler than Harris, so I don't think the whole "the Australians will target Swann and he'll go the journey" thing really has much merit.

I don't think he'll be ripping through the lineup but people have been suggesting that Ponting and Symonds/Watson will take him apart.. I really don't think that'll happen.

The thing is, Swann doesn't like people going after him the way Harris does. Harris absolutely thrives on it- the crap-looking action, the stupid hair and the irritating "jump in excitement every time the batsman hits the ball" are all specifically designed to make batsmen want to hit him (and indeed his bowling) out of the attack.

Swann i think finds it a touch demoralising. He's got the tools to properly work a batsman over and he's in his element when he can sink his claws into a batsman to force results on crumbling pitches. He can be successfully hit off his rhythm IMO. But judging by how they've played van der Merve, Botha, Amjal, Afridi, Harris, Mishra and Harbhajan over the past eight months, they'd be ill-advised to try it.

 

[GIMH]

I dunno you know. I've seen Swann drop it in too short and get hit quite comfortably for four, and then come back with a beauty next ball. I don't think it gets too him all that much.

It's also worth remembering that Gayle went after him a fair bit in the Carribean

 

[Pheobe]

The thing is, Swann doesn't like people going after him the way Harris does. Harris absolutely thrives on it- the crap-looking action, the stupid hair and the irritating "jump in excitement every time the batsman hits the ball" are all specifically designed to make batsmen want to hit him (and indeed his bowling) out of the attack.

Swann i think finds it a touch demoralising. He's got the tools to properly work a batsman over and he's in his element when he can sink his claws into a batsman to force results on crumbling pitches. He can be successfully hit off his rhythm IMO. But judging by how they've played van der Merve, Botha, Amjal, Afridi, Harris, Mishra and Harbhajan over the past eight months, they'd be ill-advised to try it.

Also it helps Swann that Australia don't possess free hitters of spin like Matt Hayden, Adam Gilchrist etc who could put pressure on him straightaway. Ricky Ponting is going through a bad patch of form so is Mike Hussey and both are not renowned to give spinners the charge early on. Katich and Clarke are both defensive players while Hughes is an unknown quantity against spin.

 

[Uppercut]

I dunno you know. I've seen Swann drop it in too short and get hit quite comfortably for four, and then come back with a beauty next ball. I don't think it gets too him all that much.

It's also worth remembering that Gayle went after him a fair bit in the Carribean

Hmm, not quite the same thing. If bowling a bad ball meant every ball from that point on was bad then he'd never make a county-standard bowler. But when someone dances down the track and hits him for consecutive sixes he's oft inclined to relax the field and bowl dross to get the other guy on strike.

 

[GIMH]

Well you're right, of course any bowler has to be capable of bowling a good ball after a bad ball. My point was more that I don't think he does find it demoralising per se.

 

[NZ Guy]

My 2 cents on the 1st test

Reckon Onions is going to get slaughtered come ashes time. Stinks of a typical english start i.e does well in first series, hyped-up afterwards, then gets slaughtered in next series, think Saj Mahmood. Didn't see tooooo much of Bresnan but from what I saw he didn't look great either (I seem to remember him bowling in the SL demolition a couple of years back). While Broad does seem to bowl the odd good spell I'm still yet to see his world beating potential and really think his career will turn into a number 6 batsman (he can even hit the ball twice in one shot!) and fourth seamer. Swann I was impressed with and always thought he was the best english spinner around. The batting was pritty good as usual with the english but still don't rate Bopara. As a kiwi I don't see how Bell, a guy who averages what? 40,45 can be dropped, you guys are spoilt, can we have him, he'd be a great in our country.

The less said about the Windies the better, they were appauuuuling. Although Fidel Edwards seems to be maturing nicely. Ramdin should be given the gloves and nobody should go near the team for awhile, hes a good keeper. And the guy that stands out like a white man in well......a west indian cricket team did well again, he looks prity good at slashing outside off.

Phew
That's all from me

 

[grecian]

The thing about Onions is I don't think he has been over-hyped yet, I certainly haven't seen it (cue someone linking to a journo calling him the next Richard Hadlee). He certainly bowled a lot better then the likes of Saj, Plunkers ever have, but that ain't saying a lot.

The thing is, I also watched him at Taunton, and he does seem to get just a touch of bounce and sideways movement on utterly flat pitches, something England need with the predominance of roads there are in Test cricket nowadays.

Yet, I'm not claiming he'll be a world-beater, he almost certainly won't be. Yet it was a promising debut, and I hope he can build on it.

 

[wpdavid]

The thing about Onions is I don't think he has been over-hyped yet, I certainly haven't seen it (cue someone linking to a journo calling him the next Richard Hadlee). He certainly bowled a lot better then the likes of Saj, Plunkers ever have, but that ain't saying a lot.

The thing is, I also watched him at Taunton, and he does seem to get just a touch of bounce and sideways movement on utterly flat pitches, something England need with the predominance of roads there are in Test cricket nowadays.

Yet, I'm not claiming he'll be a world-beater, he almost certainly won't be. Yet it was a promising debut, and I hope he can build on it.

Yup. For a first appearance, it was more than a little impressive. We all know he won't run through sides on a flat track, but he definitely showed enough to suggest he's worth his place in the side right now. It's not as if we have any viable alternatives afaics. With the remaining test against this lot on his home ground, you'd have to say it's likely he'll cement his place for what follows, and then we'll see. From the bits I saw, my one complaint was that he tried to vary it too much when really he should just focus on putting it in the obvious areas. At least, I think it was him trying to vary it rather than inconsistency: maybe I'm being generous.

 

[NZ Guy]

the thing is that he was going at about 4 an over in both innings even when the windies were in the dog poo. So that suggests to me that he was bowling too many four balls.

 

[Scaly piscine]

My 2 cents on the 1st test

Reckon Onions is going to get slaughtered come ashes time. Stinks of a typical english start i.e does well in first series, hyped-up afterwards, then gets slaughtered in next series, think Saj Mahmood. Didn't see tooooo much of Bresnan but from what I saw he didn't look great either (I seem to remember him bowling in the SL demolition a couple of years back). While Broad does seem to bowl the odd good spell I'm still yet to see his world beating potential and really think his career will turn into a number 6 batsman (he can even hit the ball twice in one shot!) and fourth seamer. Swann I was impressed with and always thought he was the best english spinner around. The batting was pritty good as usual with the english but still don't rate Bopara. As a kiwi I don't see how Bell, a guy who averages what? 40,45 can be dropped, you guys are spoilt, can we have him, he'd be a great in our country.

The less said about the Windies the better, they were appauuuuling. Although Fidel Edwards seems to be maturing nicely. Ramdin should be given the gloves and nobody should go near the team for awhile, hes a good keeper. And the guy that stands out like a white man in well......a west indian cricket team did well again, he looks prity good at slashing outside off.

Phew
That's all from me

Think Saj Mahmood? What?

Onions is an attacking bowler. He'll create chances and he'll be expensive. Some days he'll get a bit of luck and take a hatful, others he'll go for 4-5 an over and go wicketless. He's always been like that with Durham. Mahmood on the other hand is merely utter ****, he'll be expensive against anyone and will only take wickets against donkeys unless he's getting fluke wickets through strangles etc.

 

[wpdavid]

the thing is that he (Onions) was going at about 4 an over in both innings even when the windies were in the dog poo. So that suggests to me that he was bowling too many four balls.

Yes he probably did. However, it may owe something to the attacking fields that Strauss was able to set due to the match situation and WI were never going to be able to block their way to a draw.

 

[NZ Guy]

Think Saj Mahmood? What?

Onions is an attacking bowler. He'll create chances and he'll be expensive. Some days he'll get a bit of luck and take a hatful, others he'll go for 4-5 an over and go wicketless. He's always been like that with Durham. Mahmood on the other hand is merely utter ****, he'll be expensive against anyone and will only take wickets against donkeys unless he's getting fluke wickets through strangles etc.

ok fair enough haven't seen onions before and you probably no more about him.

I remember when Saj Mahmood debuted against SL he took three wickets and he was the new Glenn McGrath. Then he well...