Should Australis A be granted test status?

[royGilchrist]

one would have thought it easy enough to understand.

You have not changed Full Length

Anyways, Austrailia are not over rated.

The fact that aussies had the audacity to say that if Aus A were playing in the WC, the two would have met, made you get annoyed. But there is no way you can prove that Aus are overrated.

I think what you meant to say is, the Aussies are ****y. (Not overrated).

 

[full_length]

No I meant to say they are over rated.

It's highly debatable if they are the best team to ever play the game, which is often claimed by media persons (all over the world). I am not sure they are even the best Australian team. Not convinced they are better than the Aussie teams of the seventies.

If someone claims Australia are so good that their second eleven is better than any other international team, he's over rating the Aussies. That's why I said it's simple to understand.

 

[Kenny]

I think McGrath has decided to do what Richard Hadlee did.

Drop his pace & run-up and just concentrate on bowling the same line & length ball after ball.

McGrath's pace has not really changed for about the last two to four years.
High 120km's to about 140kms.......and he has been bowling that nagging line and length forever.

 

[Kenny]

If someone claims Australia are so good that their second eleven is better than any other international team, he's over rating the Aussies. That's why I said it's simple to understand.

Did someone claim that the Aussie second XI is BETTER THAN ANY OTHER INTERNATIONAL TEAM?

I don't think they did.

 

[Craig]

It seems to me that me and full_length seem to be saying the same thing.

Any side can beat any side on its given day. Correct me if I am wrong, didnt the PM's XI contain the great Mark Waugh?

 

[Top_Cat]

You can't tell me that McGrath hasn't lost pace.

Watch me. When I saw Glenn McGrath in his first Test at the WACA, his fastest ball was clocked at 138km/h and his pace barely went above that for the rest of the series. Don´t believe me? Check your archives if possible. I´ve actually got the 1993-94 Test series´ on video if you want more proof.

Secondly, the fastest Glenn McGrath has been clocked at was on the 1995 Carribean tour when he was clocked at 145km/h. Less than two years ago, having watched him bowl in the low 130km/h range all season, in a ODI against Zim, he was consistently hitting the mid to low 140km/h mark. In Pakistan last year, his speeds were in the mid to low 130km/h mark, like they´ve always been. This tends to suggest he bowls well within himself.

Thirdly, his record on flat wickets speaks for itself. If you want to continue to question his effectiveness on flat decks, I will question your sanity. The biggest reason Australia as a team has been called a ´flat-track bully´ for 10 years is because of Glenn McGrath and his ability to take wickets on everything short of a sheet of ice.

Look I´m not talking out of my rectal passage here (shuddap, all of ye!); all you have to do is watch him bowl and look at his figures. It´s actually been pretty rare for Glenn McGrath to have come across a team on anything BUT flatter than usual wickets because opposition teams know that if there´s even the slightest encouragement, he´ll wreck them. As it stands, on flat decks, he merely gets them out. You don´t have a Test average in the low-20´s without knowing how to bowl in all conditions. To be honest, to draw any other conclusion seems in the vicinity of ludicrous because other than his series in the WI, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his pace or effectiveness on flat wickets is waning. I´m open to being proven wrong, though, so feel free to try. Having looked at the numbers myself, I have a feeling you´ll struggle.

McGrath has his accuracy, but aside from lack of concentration, how can he really trouble batsmen on flat wickets?

If you honestly believe that Glenn McGrath´s success stems from merely bowling tightly, no amount of evidence anyone can provide will convince you. If that´s the case, then that´s sad and puts you in the same category as those who still believe Akhtar and Murali chuck, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Glenn McGrath´s record in India (nothing but flat ones there):

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

In South Africa (again, fairly flat decks with big scores on them):

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

In NZ (they rarely come any flatter):

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

In the WI (in three series, there were only two wickets with any life in them):

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

And on the three flattest wickets in Australia; Adelaide:

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Bellerive

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

And Sydney

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

In all those cases, his average is below or close to 23. And these aren´t reflective of old performances either. In recent series, his averages have only gotten better. Just for fun, here´s his most recent 20 Tests:

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

If you can look through that list and pick a lively wicket amongst them, you´re better than I. In short, you´ve got very little in McGrath´s recent performances on any deck or in his career in totality which actually backs up your argument in any way. And all this is merely looking at the bare facts, completely disregarding my own opinion that he´s still bowling as well as he ever did. Again, please correct me if I´m wrong.

 

[Craig]

That is incorrect about New Zealand pitches. Some are flat, but in december, they are green and assis the seamers. Did you watch the New Zealand India Test and ODI Series (assuming you have pay-TV)? And you will see what I mean.

 

[Tim]

Pitches in Otago & Christchurch seem to be quite flat..but Wellington & Hamilton are very seamer friendly.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

1/ In South Africa (again, fairly flat decks with big scores on them):

2/ In NZ (they rarely come any flatter):

3/ In the WI (in three series, there were only two wickets with any life in them):

1/ South African tracks aren't dead, they may be high-scoring, but they still offer something for the bowlers.

2/ NZ tracks - see #1.

3/ I can say with assurance that that is crap. Generally Barbados, Trinidad and Jamaica all have pitches which gives the bowler something. In Trinidad and Barbados it seams around on the first 2 days. In Jamaica, the seamers get something out of the pitch the whole 5 days. The WI pitches this year, however, have been dead but to say that in the last 3 series, there have been 2 lively pitches?!?....sorry but you are mistaken.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'd just like to say that you win T_C, although I still disagree, you win. I was not degrading McGrath's career nor any of his past achievements and I was not saying that he is over-rated either. Next topic.

 

[marc71178]

If you can look through that list and pick a lively wicket amongst them, you're better than I.

Leeds

 

[Langeveldt]

Johannesburg

Was notouriously lively in 2000

 

[full_length]

McGrath is a quality bowler, still an alltime great.

I don't like the jerk, and am probably not the only one. But it's a surprise to me that people still doubt his quality. I thought he's universally acknowledged as one of the top three bowlers in the world over the past few years.

I have never seen him perform poorly in a series (didn't see the NZ series). You always get the impression that "he's getting away because the batsmen arent going after him," but since he's been 'gettign away' year after year, you've got to acknowledge that it probably isn't that easy to 'go after him'.

Unfortunately, he's a class act.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Just to state yet again, that I never said that McGrath is not one of the best bowlers in the world. I never said that he's a bad bowler, or anything of the sort. I was commenting on his ability to prosper on flat tracks.

 

[Top_Cat]

That is incorrect about New Zealand pitches. Some are flat, but in december, they are green and assis the seamers. Did you watch the New Zealand India Test and ODI Series (assuming you have pay-TV)? And you will see what I mean.

I'm not talking about recent series' but the ones in which Glenn McGrath participated in and in those ones, there was very little for he pacers. Movement, maybe but pace, I doubt it.

1/ South African tracks aren't dead, they may be high-scoring, but they still offer something for the bowlers.

Not in those series' they didn't. Well, very little anyway. They are hard and a little bouncy but still, they are quite 'flat'. NZ pitches looked quite slow in the footage I've seen. Mind you, they quickened up since the 1992 WC (where they were tortoise-like in terms of pace) but then, that wouldn't be difficult.

Of course what defines a 'flat' pitch hasn't been defined here so maybe if we did that, we'd get a better understanding of Glenn McGrath's achievements.

3/ I can say with assurance that that is crap. Generally Barbados, Trinidad and Jamaica all have pitches which gives the bowler something. In Trinidad and Barbados it seams around on the first 2 days. In Jamaica, the seamers get something out of the pitch the whole 5 days. The WI pitches this year, however, have been dead but to say that in the last 3 series, there have been 2 lively pitches?!?....sorry but you are mistaken.

Again, that's debateable. What I've seen of WI pitches, they've been relatively flat and I've been watching series' in the WI since the 1990 tour by the English. The Jamaican pitch was dug up in 1991 and it's not been a fast bowler's paradise since. Michael Holding himself has been quoted as saying so. And yes, I even have it on video.

Leeds

Not in that match it wasn't. Even given that Mark Butcher batted well, that pitch actually got flatter as the match wore on. It started as a deck with a little bit and ended the match as the perfect batting wicket. Sure McGrath picked up 7-fer but he had to bowl well to get those.

Johannesburg

Was notouriously lively in 2000

Again, not in the matches Glenn McGrath played in. Australia scored a lazy 652 and 628 on it in the two matches McGrath has played for crying out loud! Now, THAT is flat. I can't vouch for the other teams who played against SA on it but in those two matches, you cannot tell me the pitch had something in it (bear in mind, I watched both matches too). The fact that SA scored low totals on it was more reflective of the large total they faced than anything in the deck itself.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Again, that's debateable. What I've seen of WI pitches, they've been relatively flat and I've been watching series' in the WI since the 1990 tour by the English. The Jamaican pitch was dug up in 1991 and it's not been a fast bowler's paradise since. Michael Holding himself has been quoted as saying so. And yes, I even have it on video.

Yes it has been dug up because it was dangerous at one stage, but it's nowhere near dead. Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago have traditionally supported the bowlers.

 

[Craig]

Yes, but Babados has seen some really big totals on it. Party Australia made big totals in Jo'burg because of poor bowling and poor fielding. The pitch would get dug up after each season, so there would be different pitches each season.

New Zealand use drop in pitches now since the Pakistan series in 2001. Do they use it in SA?

And you have to remember pitches in New Zealand around December have pitches that do assis the bowlers.

 

[age_master]

McGrath is the best pace bowler in the world, get over it

 

[Craig]

McGrath is the best pace bowler in the world, get over it

What is your reasons?

 

[royGilchrist]

What is your reason?

Who is better?

That will answer your question.