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Kevin Pietersen

Uppercut

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The bloke is an obnoxious ****. I really hate the talk that "without KP England would be crap", the fact is our results were better without him, he's a narcissistic fool and mercenary, terrible for team morale.
Hum, interesting. Do you think the West Indies would have won more games without Brian Lara?
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Hum, interesting. Do you think the West Indies would have won more games without Brian Lara?
Not sure to be fair, but KP is no Brian Lara.

England were on a winning run of Test series when KP joined us, and seemed to be on an up. I really wish Thorpe hadn't retired. Not sure if the same could be said with Lara.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The bloke is an obnoxious ****. I really hate the talk that "without KP England would be crap", the fact is our results were better without him, he's a narcissistic fool and mercenary, terrible for team morale.
The results were better, but we had Thorpe. The only series Pietersen played which Thorpe also would have is the 05 Ashes, ie he was going to retire after them anyway. Who would you have in the side instead of him?

The results were better before him because we had more good players than we do now. Many of those have now retired, I fail to see how you could possibly suggest he has a detrimental effect on results. Jesus, if it wasn't for him we'd have somehow contrived to lose the last Ashes 10-0.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The results were better, but we had Thorpe. The only series Pietersen played which Thorpe also would have is the 05 Ashes, ie he was going to retire after them anyway. Who would you have in the side instead of him?

The results were better before him because we had more good players than we do now. Many of those have now retired, I fail to see how you could possibly suggest he has a detrimental effect on results. Jesus, if it wasn't for him we'd have somehow contrived to lose the last Ashes 10-0.

Don't get your points at all, because we had practically the same side before and after:unsure:

Simon Jones wasn't much part of our success before, so his injury isn't relevant really.

Thorpe retired because he was ousted from the side by KP (and Bell admittedly which is horrific in retrospect). I just believe kevin's ego has been detrimental to the side, so we've performed poorer then our constituent parts, rather then better.

It's all opinion though, and yes losing 10-0 would of been awful......
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The bloke is an obnoxious ****. I really hate the talk that "without KP England would be crap", the fact is our results were better without him, he's a narcissistic fool and mercenary, terrible for team morale.
I think you know that it doesn't really work like that. The reason England won more matches before he starting playing was because they were a better side. England's decline can in no way be put down to Pietersen. As I have said I don't think he is really an unpleasant person, just one the sometimes says stupid thing and lacks that subetldy or maybe intelligence to realise their negative impact. He is always going to stand out as an individual due to his personality and his ability but if you take his England career as a whole it is very hard to argue he has had a negative effect on team moral or results.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Don't get your points at all, because we had practically the same side before and after:unsure:

Simon Jones wasn't much part of our success before, so his injury isn't relevant really.

Thorpe retired because he was ousted from the side by KP (and Bell admittedly which is horrific in retrospect). I just believe kevin's ego has been detrimental to the side, so we've performed poorer then our constituent parts, rather then better.

It's all opinion though, and yes losing 10-0 would of been awful......
Well, yes and no. In Pakistan yeah sure, Simon Jones was the only man missing, aside from Vaughan in one Test. And incidentally that probably was Pietersen's worst series.

From then on though - we were without Vaughan & Tresco in India, and they never played in the same side again. We never fielded the same pace attack, Flintoff has been in and out side, Giles went into decline, Geraint Jones went by the wayside. So really, the core of the Ashes team never really played again after Pakistan.
 

oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
It pisses me off when you hear players compain about touring (it only ever seems to be the English), are they forgetting they're living the dream? They get paid huge amounts and have every whim taken care of. Complaining about not seeing your wife for a couple of months, man up bitch. I know men in Afghanistan who haven't seen their families for 6 months and who are under just a tad more pressure than a bloody cricket player. I can't believe Pietersen whinges to the press (and I use that term loosely) and then has the gal to even think of himself as professional. If he'd tried this **** in any other profession he'd have been thrown to the dogs no matter how good he was.

He caught a rough deal with the captaincy, well that's just how English cricket works and he's here through his own choices, given his personality a situation like this was always going to happen somewhere down the line. A professional would have kept his mouth shut and been the bigger man, got it done on the pitch and not given his detractors any ammunition.

Considering he's been given the captaincy of his IPL franchise (ahead of Rahul Dravid, Jaques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Anil Kumble which frankly disgusts me) it will be interesting to see where his career goes from here. It wouldn't suprise me if the IPL becomes his no.1 priority, especially if he has a good tournament.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I'm sure soldiers would tell you they miss their families if you ask them. it's not like KP called a press conference to tell everyone this.

Loving the archaic attitude of people telling him to "man up." Oh nos he misses his woman, what a cissy!
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think you know that it doesn't really work like that. The reason England won more matches before he starting playing was because they were a better side. England's decline can in no way be put down to Pietersen. As I have said I don't think he is really an unpleasant person, just one the sometimes says stupid thing and lacks that subetldy or maybe intelligence to realise their negative impact. He is always going to stand out as an individual due to his personality and his ability but if you take his England career as a whole it is very hard to argue he has had a negative effect on team moral or results.
Well, yes and no. In Pakistan yeah sure, Simon Jones was the only man missing, aside from Vaughan in one Test. And incidentally that probably was Pietersen's worst series.

From then on though - we were without Vaughan & Tresco in India, and they never played in the same side again. We never fielded the same pace attack, Flintoff has been in and out side, Giles went into decline, Geraint Jones went by the wayside. So really, the core of the Ashes team never really played again after Pakistan.
My point is that the likes of Giles, Tresco, Hoggard, Geraint Jones were better without KPs influence, so your making my point for me. Every week seems to bring a new story about Kev's disruptiveness.

As I've said it's just my belief after watching England play and looking at the body language, I'm probably wrong, I normally am:)
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Hey, it's all opinion at the end of the day and you're perfectly entitled to yours, I have no problem with that.

But if the likes of Giles & Hoggard's performances declined because of a 25-year old batsman, does that say more about him or them? And I don't really think it would be fair to connect anything to do with Trescothick to Pietersen.

I dunno, I've heard him getting behind plenty of the players at different times through the press. I guess we'll only know for sure when all these players bring out their post-central contract autobiographies ;)
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Newspapers just print such articles to generate the sort of reactions and outrage that Langeveldt exhibited. Criticising KP is currently flavour of the month.
Well if it's a direct quote, unaltered, then they havent really done much but tell me, have they? It's not like they are adding a biased opinion to it
 

Woodster

International Captain
I feel KP was treated very shabbily by the ECB, and the thought of a chat to KP and sensible explanation by someone important at the ECB is obviously beyond rational thinking. It's disappointing that the ECB have caused more problems than found solutions.

As regards KP's comments about it being a long tour, wanting to get home and missing his wife ? Why is this news ? All the squad have probably thought/said this, but with KP it's always a bigger story.

Is he selfish and does he disrupt the squad ? I think he has immense determination to succeed and fulfil all his ambitions of scoring runs and becoming the greatest batsman in the world, if he does that, then surely it will benefit the England side. His detrimental effect on the squad I'm not 100% sure about, he talks a lot about himself and what he can become, that's just focus, not selfish. He may upset players at times because he wants to be in the best side, he cannot accept mediocrity.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
I feel KP was treated very shabbily by the ECB, and the thought of a chat to KP and sensible explanation by someone important at the ECB is obviously beyond rational thinking. It's disappointing that the ECB have caused more problems than found solutions.

As regards KP's comments about it being a long tour, wanting to get home and missing his wife ? Why is this news ? All the squad have probably thought/said this, but with KP it's always a bigger story.

Is he selfish and does he disrupt the squad ? I think he has immense determination to succeed and fulfil all his ambitions of scoring runs and becoming the greatest batsman in the world, if he does that, then surely it will benefit the England side. His detrimental effect on the squad I'm not 100% sure about, he talks a lot about himself and what he can become, that's just focus, not selfish. He may upset players at times because he wants to be in the best side, he cannot accept mediocrity.
I think KP treated the whole thing with contempt.. You do realize that he made his ultimatum via SMS when on safari?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I haven’t seen my family in over nine months. Who gives a toss?
You don't. And the fact that you don't give a toss means you have precisely zero right to preach to other people that they should feel the way you do. Some people's loved ones mean more to them than other people's loved ones; some people absolutely detest being apart from their loved ones, while others don't mind so much.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Before you mention the Ashes I'd say without him being such a lousy catcher, we wouldn't of needed a draw at the Oval.
Yeah, that's right, England would've won at Lord's had someone other than him been fielding. 8-)
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
You don't. And the fact that you don't give a toss means you have precisely zero right to preach to other people that they should feel the way you do. Some people's loved ones mean more to them than other people's loved ones; some people absolutely detest being apart from their loved ones, while others don't mind so much.
****, where am I preaching?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thorpe retired because he was ousted from the side by KP (and Bell admittedly which is horrific in retrospect).
No, Thorpe retired because he was 35, had an increasingly weakening back and no-one can go on forever. Thorpe was never, under any circumstance, going to play beyond the 2005 summer. He signed a coaching contract in Australia before the series against Bangladesh.
 

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