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Thread: Betting, Match-fixing, 'Fancy Fixing' - Rashid Latif

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    Betting, Match-fixing, 'Fancy Fixing'

    I read an interesting letter by Rashid Latif to the ICC. I am sure most of you have already read it...

    http://www-usa.cricket.org/link_to_d...29JUN2003.html

    And there was a well written comment on this letter as well...

    http://www-usa.cricket.org/link_to_d...29JUN2003.html

    I started this topic because the whole episode of match-fixing, has been one of the worst cricket has ever seen. And every one has obviously looked for a solution without success. ICC, predictably has used the policy of brushing it under the carpet as much as they could.

    Anyways, I have a simple solution - Ban all forms of Cricketing betting.

    Now I understand its completely impractical, sports betting is an established trade, with a lot money riding on it, and cannot be done away with, atleast instantly. A bit like tobacco smoking. Everyone knew it was bad for health, but it has taken years of battling against the formidable tobacco industry and lobby.

    So I have many questions in this respect, and would like to get answers from a diverse group of people.

    - Do you bet on cricket?

    - Have you ever betted on cricket?

    - For people living in Christian (Catholic, Anglican etc) countries or from a religious background, is it acceptable in the religion?

    I know these are theoretical questions which probably dont even have a bearing on the solution of this problem, but it will be interesting to find out the answers. Prostitution in India for example is illegal, but everyone knows that it happens.

    - Is betting legal in India?

    As far as I know its illegal in Pakistan, but it obviously happens.

    And finally, do you guys think it will be acceptable to you, to make betting illegal in cricket? (I know it wont be practical, but just answer without thinking about the practicality)

    On the flip side of the coin, since prostitution is illegal in India, but it goes on in the worst possible way. And somepone suggested that making prostituion legal will improve the problem with AIDS. Do you think it will improve things to make cricketing betting legal in countries like Inda and Pakistan?

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    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    making betting legal in ind/pak will not help matters at all.............
    what will jappen is that all small time bettors will place bets with the govt approved agencies, while major ones( lakhs and crores of rupees) will still make it to the present operators who have links with the mafia.Call it psychology , but that is how confident the present illegal operators are regarding their future in a scenario where betting is legalised.

    so this will make no diff to fixing as it is those operators who collect the most sums of money who can approach players and influence them with the colour of green...

    I do not mean to say that fixing exists now...I believe the Indian team is clean....and I think azza and jadeja were made scapegoats by the BCCI just to demonstrate that it was serious about the affair..It is no coincidence that Dalmiya was at the helm of the ICC when the BCCI took action against azza and Jadeja...if the BCCI had exonerated the two, Dalmiya's pace at the helm of the ICC would have been questioned by the rest of the members( who it seems, are always ready to put him down..)..

    By te way, I do not think legalising prostitution will reduce the spread of AIDS in iNDIA...the problem is ignorance which can be resolved only by educating the prostitutes and the public in general..( I better not go no about this topic ..the administrators may decide to kick me out if i waste this space in anything other than cricket!!
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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Re: Betting, Match-fixing, 'Fancy Fixing'

    Originally posted by royGilchrist
    Anyways, I have a simple solution - Ban all forms of Cricketing betting.
    As CW's resident bookie-basher, I'd have to disagree!
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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    It's certainly an interesting article.

    Some of his ideas are quite good IMO, but I find it mildly amusing that he suggests fining teams for not bowling their overs each session, considering which team he plays for!


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    State Captain krkode's Avatar
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    Originally posted by marc71178
    It's certainly an interesting article.

    Some of his ideas are quite good IMO, but I find it mildly amusing that he suggests fining teams for not bowling their overs each session, considering which team he plays for!
    He probably even suspects his own bowlers of accepting money to not bowl them in the alloted time or something like that.

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    Some of his ideas are quite good IMO, but I find it mildly amusing that he suggests fining teams for not bowling their overs each session, considering which team he plays for!


    I believe the Indian team is clean....and I think azza and jadeja were made scapegoats by the BCCI just to demonstrate that it was serious about the affair
    You say Indian team is clean now implying they were not clean before. The you say that azhar and jadeja were innocent and victims. Well then who was guilty earlier.

    Since the itme I found out that Cronje had offered the whole team for tanking a match by calling a team meeting!! And then no one even found out about it. If ICC did find out about it and completely ignored it its unbelievable!! What were they thinking??

    And if they didnt even know about it, its even more absurd!! How can the ICC be effective in any way if they cannot even find out such an open happening!

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    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    You say Indian team is clean now implying they were not clean before. The you say that azhar and jadeja were innocent and victims. Well then who was guilty earlier
    I didn't say that the Indian team is clean now ....I simply said that Indian cricket is clean...(saying Tendulkar is a good batsman doesnt imply that he wasn't good earlier!!)

    And the fixing I referred to wasn't Indian cricketers' fixing ( the Indian team was perfectly capable at that time of losing matches due to their own ineptitude....they didnt need to accept money to lose....they lost anyways.. )..I was referring to pakistani , safrican and aussie fixing...I guess what Shane warne and mark waugh did comes under the category of " fancy fixing "...:rolleyes:
    Last edited by Deja moo; 01-07-2003 at 12:02 AM.

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    Oh ok, I misunderstood.

    Btw, did you think the indian team was completely clean before, as in no Indian player has ever been involved in fixing?

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    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    As I said.. the Indian team of maybe 4 yrs ago was perfectly capable of losing matches by itself without the influence of bookies luring them with money....in fact many of my friends would act surprised if india managed to win a match without muddling it up....there are so many instances of India losing matches from winning positions..( we called it ' snatching defeat from the jaws of victory ' )..
    eg...first test..pak tour of ind'99
    ind loss to zim WC99
    ind loss to WI'96...last test match in Wi

    these were all important matches as far as the indians were concerned....loss to zim cost us a spot in the semis in WC99....the first test with pak was first test between ind-pak in 10 yrs...match against WI was indias golden opportunity to win an away series abroad in 10 yrs( first 4 tests were drawn....ind needed only 110 odd runs to win the match and the series....we lost... )

    azza couldnt be accused of throwing ( pun unintended ) away these chances at glory for a few measly bucks....he would have been stupid to do so........anyway it is the unimportant matches ( dead rubbers? )which are thrown....india has a good record in such dead matches.....it is the important ones we lose....( by the way, dont we all know which team currently loses its dead rubber matches?:duh: :P )

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    International Captain Deja moo's Avatar
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    by the way Roy,...I see ur point...i admit azza could have been stupid enough to accept money to fix matches...look at how dumb Cronje was!Calling a team meeting to fix a match!!!If the happenings in that team meeting wasnt reported by the other players the next day itself it points to a complicity of the other players with Cronje......How does that law go?...A person harbouring a criminal is a criminal himself( or something like that)

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    If Cronje and some other South Africans were so heavily involved and everyone knew about it (infamous team meeting, even though involving an exhibition match), I would not be surprised if the entire Pak/Indian teams were involved a few years ago, and that it still goes on. Not sure how you confidently say that no one except for azhar was involved in betting in the Indian team.

    Also, didnt you hear the sotries about Gavaskar (and Asif Iqbal in one case), where they lost the toss on purpose. Narrated by Clive Lloyd and Imran Khan for separate occasions. And we are talking about a person of the stature and intellect of Sunny.

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    Your mentioning the toss story reminds me of a funny " fixing " episode.....
    It occured in a match at Mohali between Punjab and another team ( cant recollect the other team), in the domestic league.
    Navjot s sidhu was the captain of Punjab at that time ...it was a damp mohali pitch( yes!.We can produce such pitches...but the damn new zealanders aren't going to get any of that when they come here later this year!! :!( )
    sidhu came back to the dressing room and told his team mates that he had lost the toss and had been asked to bat by the opposition.
    It later turned out that Sidhu had actually won the toss and had elected to bat on a pitch that his bowlers were dying to bowl on....The reason was that the Indian team was to be selected that evening to face australia( 1998)in the next series...Sidhu wanted to get back in the team by displaying some batting skills....wonder if his bowlers didnt give him a kick up his backside!!:P

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by royGilchrist

    Also, didnt you hear the sotries about Gavaskar (and Asif Iqbal in one case), where they lost the toss on purpose.
    Out of interest, how did they manage to do that?

    It's a 50:50 chance?

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    In both instances the person who fixed the toss (asif, and sunil) did not even bothering looking at the coin and just asked the opposing captain what he wanted to do.

    Clive Lloyd narrated this story to Viv Richards. I think he said something like "Sunil never even saw what the coin showed, he just asked me to choose what I wanted to do".

    This is quite a famous incident, and others here would know. I am going by memory here so I might be wrong. Please correct me if anyone finds a discrepancy.

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    In both instances the person who fixed the toss (asif, and sunil) did not even bothering looking at the coin and just asked the opposing captain what he wanted to do.

    Clive Lloyd narrated this story to Viv Richards. I think he said something like "Sunil never even saw what the coin showed, he just asked me to choose what I wanted to do".

    This is quite a famous incident, and others here would know. I am going by memory here so I might be wrong. Please correct me if anyone finds a discrepancy.

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