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Thread: SF Barnes

  1. #391
    International 12th Man Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    On that note, did Bradman, Headley or Hammond ever face Barnes? Hammond must have surely.
    Hammond may have, I'll be sure to check Barnes' FC match record.

    Barnes only played 11 FC matches after WWI, between 1927 and 1930. The other 7 years he must've stuck to minor cricket. Doubt Hammond faced him.
    Last edited by Coronis; 21-04-2013 at 04:57 AM.
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    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. S.R Tendulkar 5. W.R Hammond 6. G.S Sobers 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. Richard Hadlee 9. M.D Marshall 10. S.K Warne 11. G.D McGrath

  2. #392
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Apparently Barnes did bowl to Len Hutton in 1933 according to Bernard Hollowood ('Boys Own Paper'),

    All who have been fortunate enough to play with him are agreed that as a bowler of length and spin, Barnes has no equal. Even one of our youngest cricketers, the record breaking Len Hutton, has said, 'One of my best innings was against Sydney Barnes when I was sixteen; I scored 69 not out.' I remember that innings of Hutton's and I recall the warm praise it received from Barnes.

    Cited in 'The Greatest of Bowlers' (1970) by Bernard Hollowood
    Here is the scorecard;

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    Last edited by watson; 21-04-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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  3. #393
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    On that note, did Bradman, Headley or Hammond ever face Barnes? Hammond must have surely.
    Bradman no. Pretty sure the others didn't. Hammond didn't mention it in his book.

    Eventual English opener Cyril Walters did. Walters saw him off and said he didn't find him difficult at all. That was in the late 20s I think.

  4. #394
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting scorecard from the 1929 tour of England by the South Africans.

    Barnes (56 yrs old) knocked over both the openers, Herbie Taylor (28), and Bruce Mitchell (7);

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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Bradman no. Pretty sure the others didn't. Hammond didn't mention it in his book.

    Eventual English opener Cyril Walters did. Walters saw him off and said he didn't find him difficult at all. That was in the late 20s I think.
    I think that Walters and Barnes were in the same side representing Wales, rather than on opposing teams;

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  6. #396
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    I remember reading it in an old wisden mag article. Could be cricketer. Quite possible the game took place at club level. The match in your link seems to be a rep fixture with the best players from the catchment clubs participating.

  7. #397
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    I found the article. Its on one of my favourites. Walters and Turnbull played for Wales at Llandudno against the MCC. Barnes playing for the latter. He said Barnes couldn't get either of them out but Walters recalled what a great bowler he was. I can't find the match on cricketarchive.

    The reference to Barnes not being difficult is down to faulty memory. Walters was referring to Rhodes and on another occasion.

  8. #398
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    Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but it's an interesting discussion. I'm not sure if anyone has read "The Bowlers Art" by Brian Wilkins, but in there he talks quite a bit about SF Barnes in one small chapter, and reproduces what he thinks were Barnes' grips for the off break and leg break. If i had a scanner i would scan the images. It's more or less just as everyone else describes it, and looks identical to the grip you see in images of Barnes, but with the benefit of clearer angles.

    There is also this page . The only grip that looks similar to any of Barnes' is the off break and the supposed top spinner. The illustrated leg break doesn't really look practical, but the leg break in Wilkins' book is similar to the off break and looks much more practical.

    Wilkins describes the mechanic of swerve, but like some people have suggested what is considered swerve is the same as drift in this day and age. He also goes into detail on Grimmett's flipper variations. Also, it is said that Barnes' off break which drifted to the off before pitching towards leg was taught to him by Monty Noble.
    harsh.ag and zorax like this.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54321 View Post
    Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but it's an interesting discussion. I'm not sure if anyone has read "The Bowlers Art" by Brian Wilkins, but in there he talks quite a bit about SF Barnes in one small chapter, and reproduces what he thinks were Barnes' grips for the off break and leg break. If i had a scanner i would scan the images. It's more or less just as everyone else describes it, and looks identical to the grip you see in images of Barnes, but with the benefit of clearer angles.

    There is also this page . The only grip that looks similar to any of Barnes' is the off break and the supposed top spinner. The illustrated leg break doesn't really look practical, but the leg break in Wilkins' book is similar to the off break and looks much more practical.

    Wilkins describes the mechanic of swerve, but like some people have suggested what is considered swerve is the same as drift in this day and age. He also goes into detail on Grimmett's flipper variations. Also, it is said that Barnes' off break which drifted to the off before pitching towards leg was taught to him by Monty Noble.
    That is a wonderful link. Good first post
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  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54321 View Post
    Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but it's an interesting discussion. I'm not sure if anyone has read "The Bowlers Art" by Brian Wilkins, but in there he talks quite a bit about SF Barnes in one small chapter, and reproduces what he thinks were Barnes' grips for the off break and leg break. If i had a scanner i would scan the images. It's more or less just as everyone else describes it, and looks identical to the grip you see in images of Barnes, but with the benefit of clearer angles.

    There is also this page . The only grip that looks similar to any of Barnes' is the off break and the supposed top spinner. The illustrated leg break doesn't really look practical, but the leg break in Wilkins' book is similar to the off break and looks much more practical.

    Wilkins describes the mechanic of swerve, but like some people have suggested what is considered swerve is the same as drift in this day and age. He also goes into detail on Grimmett's flipper variations. Also, it is said that Barnes' off break which drifted to the off before pitching towards leg was taught to him by Monty Noble.
    .
    Barnes, "square shouldered as a tailor's model" as Alan Ross put it in his poem, is said to be by men who saw them both to have been around the same speed as Alec Bedser, which suggests he was bowling between 70 and 80mph. These days Swann is reckoned to bowl quickly for a spinner, and his average speed is around 60mph. Barnes's stock delivery was a fast leg break that swerved one way in the air and then span back the other off the pitch. He married this with a fast off break that did the exact reverse, a ball he was taught by the Australian Monty Noble, another early master of spin-swerve bowling. Barnes's particular release meant that the two were difficult to distinguish. He did not unfurl the wrist for his leg break, but rather cocked it backwards and rotated it, as though he was, as Rajan says, "unscrewing a light bulb". If you want a more technical explanation, you can find one in Bob Woolmer's Art and Science of Cricket.

    The Spin | Rejoicing in the Twirlymen and the forgotten art of medium-paced spin | Andy Bull | Sport | The Guardian

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Here is an interesting scorecard from the 1929 tour of England by the South Africans.

    Barnes (56 yrs old) knocked over both the openers, Herbie Taylor (28), and Bruce Mitchell (7);

    The Home of CricketArchive
    Magnificent find mate. Very, very interesting! 8 wickets at 56 years of age against quality like that.
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Magnificent find mate. Very, very interesting! 8 wickets at 56 years of age against quality like that.
    I see that you are still a connoisseur Jager
    Last edited by watson; 13-04-2015 at 06:42 AM.

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I see that you are still a connoisseur Jager
    Always, mate. What a player.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    That is a wonderful link. Good first post
    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    .
    Ah, Twirlymen is a book I still have to get a hold of. In Wilkins' book, he mentions that Noble bowled his off break slightly round arm if I'm not mistaken, a contrast to Barnes' high arm during his bowling. Just to add on, in Leslie Duckworth's biography on Barnes there is a small birds eye illustration of the path of Barnes' swerving off break with the position of the 2 poles he used to practice with. But of course with all the descriptions provided it's not too hard to imagine how the ball would move off and on the pitch.

  15. #405
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    He did not unfurl the wrist for his leg break, but rather cocked it backwards and rotated it, as though he was, as Rajan says, "unscrewing a light bulb".
    Basically a faster version of Ajantha Mendis as it sounds. No it cannot be. Anyone who bowls like Mendis is a joke, Barnes is serious quality. There must be something missing in the description
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