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Thread: SF Barnes

  1. #346
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biryani Pillow View Post
    Until WW1 cricket was very much an 'off side' game - for example, Wilfred Rhodes was considered a great mid-off and mid-off was a hugely important position. In earlier days hits to leg were considered by many to be 'indecent', even unsporting. Bowlers generally bowled a line more inclined to the off side and the keepers had a clear view. Also most slow spinners looked to turn the ball away from the right handed batsman. If you read the likes of Strudwick or Tiger Smith on the subject they basically say this.

    .
    I think it changed a lot with Ranji who played a lot of on side shots. Also Clem Hill was a great hooker and started his Test cricket in 1896. I agree it was considered bad sportsmanship to hit to leg but I think by 1896 it was no longer the case.
    You know it makes sense.

  2. #347
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    I think it changed a lot with Ranji who played a lot of on side shots. Also Clem Hill was a great hooker and started his Test cricket in 1896. I agree it was considered bad sportsmanship to hit to leg but I think by 1896 it was no longer the case.
    I suspect you are correct about Ranji.

    It was always ok to hit a leg side ball to leg obviously but with bowling being so off side such a delivery was normally a bad mistake from the bowler as was a short delivery..

    E.M.Grace was known for 'pulling' straight or even off side balls to leg - believed to be a technique learned because he was given a bat too large for him as a youngster - and this was rather looked down upon.

    Ranji was the first to hit straight deliveries to leg wth a 'straight' bat.

  3. #348
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biryani Pillow View Post
    I suspect you are correct about Ranji.

    It was always ok to hit a leg side ball to leg obviously but with bowling being so off side such a delivery was normally a bad mistake from the bowler as was a short delivery..

    E.M.Grace was known for 'pulling' straight or even off side balls to leg - believed to be a technique learned because he was given a bat too large for him as a youngster - and this was rather looked down upon.

    Ranji was the first to hit straight deliveries to leg wth a 'straight' bat.
    Agree with all that. Off theory was a big factor but didn't work with Ranji. Hill was also known to pull balls pitched short outside off.

  4. #349
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Agree with all that. Off theory was a big factor but didn't work with Ranji. Hill was also known to pull balls pitched short outside off.
    Any reason why Hill is not rated as much as trumper? I heard Hill was a very quick scorer too. Also their records are similar and he is also part of the group along with Trumper that rebelled against board at that time. Is his playing style anyway considered vastly different than Victor's or something?


  5. #350
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Sounds about right. Waqar has stumping dismissals so keepers have stood up to him despite his pace and swing. Maybe his fuller length and accordingly less bounce made it possible for keepers to do that.
    Either that or keepers have stood back to some remarkably dimwitted batsmen.

    Also, I see no stumpings.
    Last edited by Neil Pickup; 09-02-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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  6. #351
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup View Post
    Either that or keepers have stood back to some remarkably dimwitted batsmen.

    Also, I see no stumpings.
    I'm pretty sure that page doesn't show how he got his wickets.

  7. #352
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup View Post
    Either that or keepers have stood back to some remarkably dimwitted batsmen.

    Also, I see no stumpings.
    What about Morkel then? Or McGrath or Marshall or the others I've mentioned. Just how stupid do you think batsmen are? Why is it believable that batsman consistently charged a bowler of Waqar's pace but not that keepers occasionally stand up to them?

    Your link was informative but I don't see its relevance.

  8. #353
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Here is a photo of O'Reilly bowling to his slips field (sorry it's not bigger). If someone can find a similar photo of SF Barnes and his slips field, then Bradman was right - O'Reilly and Barnes were similar kinds of bowlers, and therefore probably bowled at the similar speeds.

    Last edited by watson; 09-02-2013 at 08:29 PM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  9. #354
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Trumper View Post
    Any reason why Hill is not rated as much as trumper? I heard Hill was a very quick scorer too. Also their records are similar and he is also part of the group along with Trumper that rebelled against board at that time. Is his playing style anyway considered vastly different than Victor's or something?
    Mostly it was a style thing but also Trumper was considered a much better batsman on 'sticky wickets'.

    Clem Hill had no doubt who was the better when he said

    "as a batsman, I'm not fit to lick Vic's boots"

  10. #355
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Thats a better photo I have of O'Reilly so thanks for that Watson. My wife has scanned the Minnett cutting Barnes photo. She and I will try and upload it here later. Hopefully it all works.

  11. #356
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Thats a better photo I have of O'Reilly so thanks for that Watson. My wife has scanned the Minnett cutting Barnes photo. She and I will try and upload it here later. Hopefully it all works.
    Mrs Bambino clearly a superior human being to the estranged Mrs Fertang

  12. #357
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Here is a photo of O'Reilly bowling to his slips field (sorry it's not bigger). If someone can find a similar photo of SF Barnes and his slips field, then Bradman was right - O'Reilly and Barnes were similar kinds of bowlers, and therefore probably bowled at the similar speeds.

    That is fairly far back, but I recall how surprised I was the first time I saw O'Reilly bowl. He was practically bowling medium pace and I think Underwood was even faster.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  13. #358
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Mrs Bambino clearly a superior human being to the estranged Mrs Fertang
    I make no comment on your estrangement except to say I hope the both of you find or have found happiness. My wife is tolerant of my love of cricket but in truth I don't talk the subject with her. A policy I've adopted with anyone other than an outright fan due to the ridicule I've received in the past. This is strange as I'm not as rude when people buttonhole me about their pet topics...

    Anyway she sportingly allows me to camp in front of the teev when a game is on and isn't the remotest bit jealous. She is far more adept at computers than I and was happy to try and help me here.

  14. #359
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Here is a short video that includes footage of both O'Reilly and DVP Wright bowling in the 1938 series. Both were quick for leg-spinners with the slips fielder standing back about half a pitch length;

    AUSTRALIA WINS THE ASHES - British Pathé
    Last edited by watson; 10-02-2013 at 07:29 PM.

  15. #360
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Here is a photo of O'Reilly bowling to his slips field (sorry it's not bigger). If someone can find a similar photo of SF Barnes and his slips field, then Bradman was right - O'Reilly and Barnes were similar kinds of bowlers, and therefore probably bowled at the similar speeds.

    If Bradman ever saw Barnes bowl - and it's not recorded that he did - Barnes would have been well past his best (and fastest) by that time.

    Bradman considered O'Reilly superior because "he bowled the googly" - as Barnes replied when told this "I never needed to". He spun his off break from the front of the hand.

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