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Thread: SF Barnes

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Thats all I am saying.
    But why didn't you say it?

    Even so I'm not convinced about the distinction of swerve from side spin and swing achieved thru seam position was not present in the golden age. Those who achieve movement via side spin are usually slower bowlers than those who achieve it from seam position. Noble as an example.

    From what I've read Hirst was much quicker than spinner/swervers like Noble and is credited with getting swing thru the air by more moderm means. This would gel with his reports of his faster pace. Hirst himself was never forthcoming how he did it but he did coach players in his later years and they definitely were swingers in the modern sense.
    Last edited by the big bambino; 30-01-2013 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #212
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Bhanja got a beauty.

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Nice post PEWS, and good demonstrative video of Nathan Hauritz. Especially the first ball.

    I like to play SF Barnes as my lone spinner in my ATG ENG XI. Is this a fair call in light of what everyone has been saying?
    Barnes I'm sure bowled pretty quickly by the standards of the day when the situation called, and I see absolutely no evidence to suggest he flighted the ball like a spinner, but after reading this thread there's little doubt in my mind that he spun the ball. He got drift in the air and broke it off the pitch, just like that Hauritz delivery (but spinning the other way). He could bowl long spells and I've no doubt he'd take advantage of a turning track, so it's a fair call.

    To label him a fast bowler or a spinner in the way we label modern bowlers would be inaccurate as he was neither in the way we like to think of them, but what actually did with the ball, based on the sources SJS has kindly provided, definitely seems to me to be more in line with a modern spinner than a modern fast bowler. We're probably approaching classic benchmark00 ground with his inclusion here in that the game was just so different that trying to actually balance a bowling attack with him it would be nigh impossible as he bowled something that no longer even has a classification.

    Personally I'm happy to just call him one of the greatest bowlers of all time and not lose much sleep over draft or AT elevens. His actual standing in the game's history is of far more consequence IMO than the balance of imaginary composite teams.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Nice post PEWS, and good demonstrative video of Nathan Hauritz. Especially the first ball.

    I like to play SF Barnes as my lone spinner in my ATG ENG XI. Is this a fair call in light of what everyone has been saying?
    He was versatile enough so yeah I'd guess You wouldn't miss out. Barnes claimed the movement he got from pitches was achieved by spin.


  5. #215
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Sounds like a great bowler to be able to get "swerve" and spin at quicker speeds than your average spinner (the speeds Afridi sometimes generates maybe).

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Barnes I'm sure bowled pretty quickly by the standards of the day when the situation called, and I see absolutely no evidence to suggest he flighted the ball like a spinner, but after reading this thread there's little doubt in my mind that he spun the ball. He got drift in the air and broke it off the pitch, just like that Hauritz delivery (but spinning the other way). He could bowl long spells and I've no doubt he'd take advantage of a turning track, so it's a fair call.

    To label him a fast bowler or a spinner in the way we label modern bowlers would be inaccurate as he was neither in the way we like to think of them, but what actually did with the ball, based on the sources SJS has kindly provided, definitely seems to me to be more in line with a modern spinner than a modern fast bowler. We're probably approaching classic benchmark00 ground with his inclusion here in that the game was just so different that trying to actually balance a bowling attack with him it would be nigh impossible as he bowled something that no longer even has a classification.

    Personally I'm happy to just call him one of the greatest bowlers of all time and not lose much sleep over draft or AT elevens. His actual standing in the game's history is of far more consequence IMO than the balance of imaginary composite teams.
    I think that we have enough good infomation to classify Barnes - at least when it comes to his 'stock' wicket taking delivery: 'Leg-break finger-spinner'
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  7. #217
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Really don't see why he is seen so differently from O'Reilly or even Underwood.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  8. #218
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Really don't see why he is seen so differently from O'Reilly or even Underwood.
    Here is a photo of O'Reilly's famous and unorthodox grip.

    Too me it looks as though his third finger is about to flick the ball and therefore make it spin - just like SF Barnes!

    Australia bowler, Bill O'Reilly, demonstrates his famous grip, ca. 1932 / by Sam Hood | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    And so now I'm going to hazard a guess and say that it was O'Reilly's ability to spin leg-breaks with his third finger, and at medium pace that caused Don Bradman to admit that O'Reilly and Barnes were similar bowlers to eachother.
    Last edited by watson; 30-01-2013 at 05:12 PM.

  9. #219
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    HS Altham described him as appreciably more than medium pace capable of swinging and breaking the ball from leg or off even in the finest weather or the truest wickets in Australia. His deadliest delivery bowled from wide of the crease move in with late swerve the width of the wicket and break back to hit off.

    Hollowood's father captained Barnes and said he could bowl the lot but took all his wkts with fast leg breaks. Bloody marvellous he said. Fast leg breaks and always on a length.

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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Chris Harris bowled with a bit too much top spin to really get it to drift, but with a more front on wrist angle he would have been able to get it to really tail in.

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    He did in the early days. WC 1992, hooped them in.
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  12. #222
    International Debutant shankar's Avatar
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    So basically, Barnes was a Kumble who bowled more side-spin instead of over-spin?

  13. #223
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    No. Barnes had a leg break at least.

  14. #224
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    lol

    Plus both O'Reilly and Barnes were faster than Kumble. So were Verity and Underwood.
    Last edited by kyear2; 31-01-2013 at 04:22 AM.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    No. Barnes had a leg break at least.
    That's what the 'side-spin instead of overspin' part was referring to.

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