SF Barnes - Page 15

the big bambino · 30-01-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

Thats all I am saying.

But why didn't you say it?

Even so I'm not convinced about the distinction of swerve from side spin and swing achieved thru seam position was not present in the golden age. Those who achieve movement via side spin are usually slower bowlers than those who achieve it from seam position. Noble as an example.

From what I've read Hirst was much quicker than spinner/swervers like Noble and is credited with getting swing thru the air by more moderm means. This would gel with his reports of his faster pace. Hirst himself was never forthcoming how he did it but he did coach players in his later years and they definitely were swingers in the modern sense.

Agent Nationaux · 30-01-2013, 02:05 PM

Bhanja got a beauty.

Prince EWS · 30-01-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson

Nice post PEWS, and good demonstrative video of Nathan Hauritz. Especially the first ball.

I like to play SF Barnes as my lone spinner in my ATG ENG XI. Is this a fair call in light of what everyone has been saying?

Barnes I'm sure bowled pretty quickly by the standards of the day when the situation called, and I see absolutely no evidence to suggest he flighted the ball like a spinner, but after reading this thread there's little doubt in my mind that he spun the ball. He got drift in the air and broke it off the pitch, just like that Hauritz delivery (but spinning the other way). He could bowl long spells and I've no doubt he'd take advantage of a turning track, so it's a fair call.

To label him a fast bowler or a spinner in the way we label modern bowlers would be inaccurate as he was neither in the way we like to think of them, but what actually did with the ball, based on the sources SJS has kindly provided, definitely seems to me to be more in line with a modern spinner than a modern fast bowler. We're probably approaching classic benchmark00 ground with his inclusion here in that the game was just so different that trying to actually balance a bowling attack with him it would be nigh impossible as he bowled something that no longer even has a classification.

Personally I'm happy to just call him one of the greatest bowlers of all time and not lose much sleep over draft or AT elevens. His actual standing in the game's history is of far more consequence IMO than the balance of imaginary composite teams.

the big bambino · 30-01-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson

Nice post PEWS, and good demonstrative video of Nathan Hauritz. Especially the first ball.

I like to play SF Barnes as my lone spinner in my ATG ENG XI. Is this a fair call in light of what everyone has been saying?

He was versatile enough so yeah I'd guess You wouldn't miss out. Barnes claimed the movement he got from pitches was achieved by spin.

Agent Nationaux · 30-01-2013, 02:12 PM

Sounds like a great bowler to be able to get "swerve" and spin at quicker speeds than your average spinner (the speeds Afridi sometimes generates maybe).

watson · 30-01-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Barnes I'm sure bowled pretty quickly by the standards of the day when the situation called, and I see absolutely no evidence to suggest he flighted the ball like a spinner, but after reading this thread there's little doubt in my mind that he spun the ball. He got drift in the air and broke it off the pitch, just like that Hauritz delivery (but spinning the other way). He could bowl long spells and I've no doubt he'd take advantage of a turning track, so it's a fair call.

To label him a fast bowler or a spinner in the way we label modern bowlers would be inaccurate as he was neither in the way we like to think of them, but what actually did with the ball, based on the sources SJS has kindly provided, definitely seems to me to be more in line with a modern spinner than a modern fast bowler. We're probably approaching classic benchmark00 ground with his inclusion here in that the game was just so different that trying to actually balance a bowling attack with him it would be nigh impossible as he bowled something that no longer even has a classification.

Personally I'm happy to just call him one of the greatest bowlers of all time and not lose much sleep over draft or AT elevens. His actual standing in the game's history is of far more consequence IMO than the balance of imaginary composite teams.

I think that we have enough good infomation to classify Barnes - at least when it comes to his 'stock' wicket taking delivery: 'Leg-break finger-spinner'

kyear2 · 30-01-2013, 04:31 PM

Really don't see why he is seen so differently from O'Reilly or even Underwood.

watson · 30-01-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyear2

Really don't see why he is seen so differently from O'Reilly or even Underwood.

Here is a photo of O'Reilly's famous and unorthodox grip.

Too me it looks as though his third finger is about to flick the ball and therefore make it spin - just like SF Barnes!

Australia bowler, Bill O'Reilly, demonstrates his famous grip, ca. 1932 / by Sam Hood | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And so now I'm going to hazard a guess and say that it was O'Reilly's ability to spin leg-breaks with his third finger, and at medium pace that caused Don Bradman to admit that O'Reilly and Barnes were similar bowlers to eachother.

the big bambino · 30-01-2013, 05:18 PM

HS Altham described him as appreciably more than medium pace capable of swinging and breaking the ball from leg or off even in the finest weather or the truest wickets in Australia. His deadliest delivery bowled from wide of the crease move in with late swerve the width of the wicket and break back to hit off.

Hollowood's father captained Barnes and said he could bowl the lot but took all his wkts with fast leg breaks. Bloody marvellous he said. Fast leg breaks and always on a length.

vic_orthdox · 30-01-2013, 08:45 PM

Chris Harris bowled with a bit too much top spin to really get it to drift, but with a more front on wrist angle he would have been able to get it to really tail in.

Top_Cat · 30-01-2013, 09:32 PM

He did in the early days. WC 1992, hooped them in.

shankar · 31-01-2013, 02:29 AM

So basically, Barnes was a Kumble who bowled more side-spin instead of over-spin?

the big bambino · 31-01-2013, 03:48 AM

No. Barnes had a leg break at least.

kyear2 · 31-01-2013, 03:50 AM

lol

Plus both O'Reilly and Barnes were faster than Kumble. So were Verity and Underwood.

shankar · 31-01-2013, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the big bambino

No. Barnes had a leg break at least.

That's what the 'side-spin instead of overspin' part was referring to.

30-01-2013, 04:31 PM	#217 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,500	Really don't see why he is seen so differently from O'Reilly or even Underwood. __________________ 1st XI Hutton \| Hobbs \| Bradman \| Richards \| Tendulkar \| Sobers \| Gilchrist \| Khan \| Marshall \| Warne \| McGrath 2nd XI Sutcliffe \| Gavaskar \| Headley \| Chappell \| Lara \| Kallis \| Miller \| Knott \| Ambrose \| Lillee \| Muralitharan 3rd XI Greenidge \| Morris \| Ponting \| Pollock \| Hammond \| Worrell \| Ames \| Hadlee \| Holding \| Trueman \| O'Reilly 4th XI Richards \| Simpson \| Sangakkara \| Weekes \| Border \| Walcott \| Botham \| Lindwall \| Laker \| Garner \| Barnes

30-01-2013, 09:32 PM	#221 (permalink)
Top_Cat Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 21,184	He did in the early days. WC 1992, hooped them in. __________________ Check out my bands! The Colourphonics http://www.youtube.com/user/TheColourphonics http://twitter.com/colourphonics Candice and The Arcade Villains http://triplejunearthed.com.au/Candi...ArcadeVillains

31-01-2013, 03:50 AM	#224 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,500	lol Plus both O'Reilly and Barnes were faster than Kumble. So were Verity and Underwood. Last edited by kyear2; 31-01-2013 at 04:22 AM.

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30-01-2013, 02:05 PM	#212 (permalink)
Agent Nationaux Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8,269	Bhanja got a beauty.

30-01-2013, 02:12 PM	#215 (permalink)
Agent Nationaux Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8,269	Sounds like a great bowler to be able to get "swerve" and spin at quicker speeds than your average spinner (the speeds Afridi sometimes generates maybe).

30-01-2013, 05:18 PM	#219 (permalink)
the big bambino First Class Debutant Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Dunno. I say Marco you say Polo. Posts: 810	HS Altham described him as appreciably more than medium pace capable of swinging and breaking the ball from leg or off even in the finest weather or the truest wickets in Australia. His deadliest delivery bowled from wide of the crease move in with late swerve the width of the wicket and break back to hit off. Hollowood's father captained Barnes and said he could bowl the lot but took all his wkts with fast leg breaks. Bloody marvellous he said. Fast leg breaks and always on a length.

30-01-2013, 08:45 PM	#220 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,365	Chris Harris bowled with a bit too much top spin to really get it to drift, but with a more front on wrist angle he would have been able to get it to really tail in.

31-01-2013, 02:29 AM	#222 (permalink)
shankar International Debutant Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Southampton Posts: 2,350	So basically, Barnes was a Kumble who bowled more side-spin instead of over-spin?

31-01-2013, 03:48 AM	#223 (permalink)
the big bambino First Class Debutant Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Dunno. I say Marco you say Polo. Posts: 810	No. Barnes had a leg break at least.

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