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Special Poll 2: Which Gavaskar would you select?

Which Gavaskar are you going to select?


  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

bagapath

International Captain
Sunil Gavaskar has made it to both the Pre and Post Packer teams.

If you decide to keep him in the first team, Greenidge will partner Hayden in the Post Packer team. If not, Boycott would join Hutton in the Pre Packer Team.

Pre Packer Stats:


G Boycott (Eng) 1964-1979 79 138 17 5915 246* 48.88 16 33 7
SM Gavaskar (India) 1971-1979 46 85 6 4405 220 55.75 19 17 6

Post Packer Stats:

CG Greenidge (WI) 1979-1991 88 146 14 5847 226 44.29 14 25 8
SM Gavaskar (India) 1979-1987 73 118 6 5202 221 46.44 14 25 5

FYI.. the Top 5 of the respective teams minus Gavaskar are:

Pre Packer XI

Hutton
-----
G.Pollock
G.Chappell
Sobers

Post Packer XI
Hayden
------
Lara
Tendulkar
V.Richards
 
Last edited:

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I went for "Post Packer Gavaskar and Pre Packer Boycott" as I think it will be fairer to both sides.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
If you add pre- and post- Gavaskars together you get a total that's one century and about 500 runs short of his total career numbers. What's happened there?
 

bagapath

International Captain
he played in a very small number of games - including the one in which he scored his highest score of 236* - in the middle order.
 

bagapath

International Captain
the other poll between murali and mcgrath has more votes polled in already. guess this poll features very non-controversial choices and hence duller response.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Even though Gavaskar was better pre-Packer, the post-Packer side needs him more as Hayden may just get owned early by Lillee, Trueman and co. Greenidge doesn't provide quite enough stability at the top IMO.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Even though Gavaskar was better pre-Packer, the post-Packer side needs him more as Hayden may just get owned early by Lillee, Trueman and co. Greenidge doesn't provide quite enough stability at the top IMO.
Sort of AWTA. I think Hayden would do a solid job at the top, even against the best in these teams. However, I don't think that Greenidge would be quite as good and would be the glaring weakness in the side. Boycott would not be a weakness in his side.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Gavaskar played some very weak bowling attacks away from home in the pre Packer era. Here have a look.
- 1971 debut series in Windes :
Gavaskar scored : 774 runs in 8 innings (4 Tests) at 154.8 and ran up scores of 65 and 67 not out, 116 and 64 not out, 1 and 117 not out, 124 and 220 !! Incredible scores indeed. But lets just look at West Indies.

Background :
The hosts were in a terrible patch. Had lost three out of the previous four series (England 1-0, Australia 3-1 and England 2-0) and just managed to draw (1-1) in the fourth against the lowly New Zealand. It wasn't a surprise that they lost to India and went on to draw the next series against Kiwis(0-0) and lose the next to Aussies(2-0). In 31 Test matches during this period, Windies one just two (one of which to Kiwis). Gavaskar's debut series that fell bang in the middle of this period should be seen in this light.

Windies bowling :
A look at the West Indian wicket takers in that series gives a good idea of the over all strength of the attack.
Code:
[B]Player        	Wkts	Avg	S/R[/B]
Noreiga*	17	29	77.76
Sobers      	12	33.42	109.5
Shepherd	7	30.43	88.29
Dowe        	7	35	72.86
Holder       	6	32	82.33
Barrett       	4	48.5	121
Shillingord	4	54.25	112.5
Holford      	3	43.67	111
Boyce       	2	29.5	68
Foster       	1	52	234
Ali, Inshan	1	125	228
* It gets worse if you keep in mind that Noreiga got 9 of those wickets for 95 on one helpful track in an innings. He got his other 8 wickets for 398 runs !
Gavaskar was not the only one who made the most of this weak attack, Sardesai scored 642 runs in the series including scores of 75, 112, 150 and 212. Remember he scored just 1359 in the other 25 Tests he played at 31.0 with 2 centuries.
1975-76 New Zealand
Gavaskar scored : 266 runs at 66.5 in 3 Tests. But look at the details.

Background :
New Zealand had, in almost fifty years of Test cricket won just one Test series ( a 1-0 win over Pakistan in 1969-70) They started the series with a loss in the first Test but after a draw in the second, went on to square the series in the third.

New Zealand bowling :
In the first Test, Kiwis opened with Collings and DAYLE Hadlee followed by Congdon, Howarth and O'Sullivan. There was no Richard Hadlee who had debuted in 1973 and played his last Test in 1974 after 20 wickets in 7 Tests at a less than impressive 36.8 each.

Gavaskar scored 116 and 35 not out in this first Test.

In the second Test Kiwis brought in young Richard Hadlee., who in those days was one of the fastest bowlers in the world, though not the immaculate line and length bowler he eventually became. Withe the speed of the younger Hadlee, the all seam, attack of the first innings looked much better (Collinge, Daye and Richard Hadlee and Congdon). India managed to draw the match (after playing catch up for most of the match).

Gavaskar scored 71 and 22. Falling once to Richared Hadlee.

In the final Test, Kiwis added yet another pacer (Lance Cairns) and the five man pace attack bowled India out for 220 and 81. A shock innings defeat. Richard Hadlee bowled second change in either innings taking 4 for 35 and a devastating 7 for 23 !!

Gavaskar fell to Hadlee in the first innings for 22 and did not bat in the second.

Over all a good series but again he got bulk of his runs when the attack was wanting.
West Indies 1975-76 (4 Tests)

Gavaskar scored : 355 runs at 55.71

Background :
West Indies, trying to rebuild under Clive Lloyd, had just received a thrashing, at home, from Australia (4-1) less than six weeks ago. Young Andy Roberts was well established but Holding in his debut series, just ended, had just 10 wickets at 61 each but he was really quick.
Of the other pacers, Holder and Boyce's wickets had cost 40 each against Aussies.

Gibbs with 16 wickets at 41 each in 5 Tests against Australia, had played his last Test. There was no good spinner in sight.

Still in Roberts and Holding they had an impressive opening attack although there wasn't much support. Unfortunately, Roberts could play only the first two Tests. Julien opened with Holding in one Test Daniell in the last. Still it was a decent attack though Windies best was just round the corner.

For me the shocking thing was India's capitulation in the second innings of the series deciding last Test. When they ended the innings at 97 for 5, Holding had bowled 7,2. Daniell 3, Julen 3 and Holder 6. Spinner Jumadeen bowled 7 overs for 19 runs and 2 wickets. Mohinder Amarnath scored 60 of those runs and hammered the fast bowlers to all parts of the field before Lloyd brought back Jumadeen and Amarnathn was stumped off him. I wonder what Indian media would have said today if Tandulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman faced a similar situation today.

Still it was a reasonable performance by Gavaskar and certainly his best away from home against a decent attack on this 'pre-packer' era.
Australia 1977-78 :
Gavaskar scored 450 rund in 5 Tests at 50 each.

Background: The entire regular Australian side, besides Thomson, had rebeled and joined Packer. People still talk of what an exciting series it was. I was 27, still playing cricket actively and clearly remember how disgusted we were that India did not trounce, what was essentially Australia's B side.

Australian bowling :- Beside Thomson they had the following bowlers
- Wayne Clarke
- John Gannon
- Gary Cosier
- Bruce Yardley
- Bobby Simpson
- Tony Mann
- Alan Hurst

I wont hold it against you if you haven't heard all those names. Few of them will make a great bowlers list :)

Gavaskar averaged 50 and for me, then, that was a huge surprise for it was very disappointing.
The other series Gavaskar played away from home (with his series batting averages) in this period were :-
  • England 1971 : 24.0
  • England 1974 : 36.2

I dont give much weightage to the series in the sub continent for though Pakistan had a very fine attack, the wickets were invariably loaded in batsman's favour in that country.

I think Gavaskar's lone good series of this era , keeping the bowling attack in mind, away from home was the 1975-76 series in Windies. I think he played better cricket in the latter period, starting with the very first series in England in 1979 where against Willis, Botham, Hendrick, Edmund (besides Miller, Lever and Willey), Gavaskar scored ...
  • 61 and 68
  • 42 and 59
  • 78
  • 13 and 221

542 runs at 77.4 with a magnificent 221 which almost managed to help India chase over 400 to win and 4 other fifties in just six innings.

.....cont
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
cont. . . .

Its amazing how, when you go into the details rather than look at stats in an aggregate manner, how the mighty fall.

Gavaskar played the following series in the post packer era, away from the sub-continent and his averages :-
Code:
[B]
YEAR	Runs	Avg	Bowlers[/B][/SIZE]
[B]1979	542	77.4	Botham, Willis, Hendricks, Edmund[/B]
80-81	70	19.7	Lillee, Pascoe, Yardley, Hogg
80-81	126	25.2	Hadlee, Cairns, Snedden, Bracewell
1982	74	24.7	Botham, Willis, Pringle, Edmunds
82-83	240	30	Roberts, Marshall, Holding, Garner
[B]85-86	352	117.3	Reid. Bright, Matthews, McDermott, Gilbert[/B]
1986	175	29.2	Dilley, Pringle, Foster, Edmunds, Emburey
Just have a look at that. Isn't it amazing. These are all his Post Packer series outside India, Pakisrtan and Sri Lanka. He failed in 5 out of 7. I give him high marks of 1979 but the 85-86 series wagainst Australia was again against a weakened attack with all the stars having retired and Border struggling to build all over again. It was the only time India went through an Australian series without losing a Test match.

India ran up scores of 520, 445 and 600 for 4 in the three first innings. They lost just 26 wickets in the three Test matches. Again Mr Gavaskar had found an oportunity to score against a weak attack. But so did others.

Here are the averages of the other Indian batsmen on this tour

  1. Amarnath : 74
  2. Srikkanth : 73
  3. Vengsarkar : 60
  4. Azhar : 57
  5. Shastri : 46
  6. Kapil : 45

Even bowlers Chetan Sharma and Shivlal Yadav managed innings of 54 and 47.

Caelrly Gavaskar did not have a great record against good attacks away from South Asia either side of the Packer revolution. He just faced better attacks in the post Packer era and therefore had fewer opportunities for great series figures.

By the way, I am often asked why I do not pick Gavaskar in my all time world XI's. I hope this answers that query :)
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Here is a summary of all Gavaskar's away series (except in South Asia). The ones where he did well are in bold. Of those which are against weak attacks are in red.

Code:
[B]YEAR	Runs	Avg	Bowlers[/B]
[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]70-71	774	154.8	Sobers, Noreiga, Holder, Barrett, Dowe, Shephard[/COLOR][/B]
1974	217	36.2	Old, Hendrick, Arnokd, Willis, Greig, Underwood
[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]75-76	266	66.5	Dayle Hadlee, Collinge, Howarth, Congdon, Richard Hadlee[/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]75-76	390	55.7	Holding, Jumadin, Julien, Padmore, Roberts,[/B] [/COLOR]
[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]77-78	450	50	Clarke, Thomson, Gannon, Mann, Yardley, Simpson, [/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]1979	542	77.4	Botham, Willis, Hendricks, Edmund[/B][/COLOR]
80-81	118	19.7	Lillee, Pascoe, Yardley, Hogg
80-81	126	25.2	Hadlee, Cairns, Snedden, Bracewell
1982	74	24.7	Botham, Willis, Pringle, Edmunds
82-83	240	30	Roberts, Marshall, Holding, Garner
[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]85-86	352	117.3	Reid. Bright, Matthews, McDermott, Gilbert[/COLOR][/B]
1986	175	29.2	Dilley, Pringle, Foster, Edmunds, Emburey
 
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Evermind

International Debutant
Very interesting, SJS. Could you do a similar analysis for others like Hayden and Sehwag, for example?
 

JBH001

International Regular
Going for post-packer Gavaskar, but mainly because I want to see two Yorkshiremen walk out together for the pre-Packer XI. It may be the cricket romantic in me, but isn't Yorkshire where the mould for opening batsmen is made? Watching Hutton and Boycott together would be a technicians delight.
 

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