Page 45 of 45 FirstFirst ... 35434445
Results 661 to 671 of 671

Thread: Is Dale Steyn the worst ever best fast bowler in the world?

  1. #661
    International Coach social's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    12,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketismylife View Post
    Is it just me or is Lee really overrated by the general public as a bowler? He was decent in the shorter forms but in test cricket I always saw him as the weakest link of that Australian attack. His stats are quite decent without being anywhere near great, but even they seem to flatter him, when big matches or strong teams were around my memory of Lee is that he generally went missing. Maybe I'm being harsh but always felt underwhelmed watching Lee bowl in tests.
    A number of the Oz players from his era rate him extremely highly and believe that his stats suffered because he was told by his various captains to attack at all costs and given very little run saving protection

    Whilst there might be some truth in that, it's hard to argue against the fact that he also bowled a lot of crap from time to time

  2. #662
    U19 12th Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Bondi, NSW
    Posts
    260
    Bung was not the same bowler after coming back from the elbow injury 2001. His pace dropped significantly and didn't have enough variation to trouble batmen consistently.

    The one of the greatest fast bowler mysteries is the fact Holding gets more recognition than Garner, even though statistically Garner has a slight edge.

    The only thing Holding had over Garner was petulance, deliberately bowling at batsmen's bodies and injuries.

  3. #663
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    21,094
    wasn't Holding significantly quicker in pace than Garner too?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  4. #664
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    1,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Second Spitter View Post
    Bung was not the same bowler after coming back from the elbow injury 2001. His pace dropped significantly and didn't have enough variation to trouble batmen consistently.

    The one of the greatest fast bowler mysteries is the fact Holding gets more recognition than Garner, even though statistically Garner has a slight edge.

    The only thing Holding had over Garner was petulance, deliberately bowling at batsmen's bodies and injuries.
    A bit of a Pollock/Donald case I'd imagine.
    @CowsCorner - 202 followers and counting!

    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.


  5. #665
    International Coach social's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    12,040
    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    wasn't Holding significantly quicker in pace than Garner too?
    Garner generally bowled well within himself until later in his career when he opened the bowling for a while

    AT times, he was considered to be quicker than Marshall

  6. #666
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Second Spitter View Post
    Bung was not the same bowler after coming back from the elbow injury 2001. His pace dropped significantly and didn't have enough variation to trouble batmen consistently.

    The one of the greatest fast bowler mysteries is the fact Holding gets more recognition than Garner, even though statistically Garner has a slight edge.

    The only thing Holding had over Garner was petulance, deliberately bowling at batsmen's bodies and injuries.
    Garner is the forgotten (perhaps slightly underrated) one. In my opinions, he is the ideal first change bowler in any XI, even an all time one...

    Imagine seeing off the opening bowlers (Lillee, Marshall or whoever), then having to cope with Garner.

  7. #667
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    under
    Posts
    98
    Stats don't work across generations, they're probably the worst measure you can use. They are numbers that reflect - different players, different pitches, different bats, players at different stages of their careers, different bowling plans, different captaincy, test landscapes at different stages of evolution (batting style, run rate, innovation with deliveries). Whole different basic ways of going about the game of cricket.

    Lillee's stats for instance look a superficially good point of comparison because they're in the same ballpark as other greats from different eras, but the reality is those numbers have had a world of different dynamics, behaviours and people combined to have created them.

    This is where one becomes reliant on their eye and a sense of what each bowler was up against, and what he was able to do. What do we see?

    Steyn is an amazing player. To my eye, a good few are ahead of him. I can't wait to see how his game develops into his 30s, with all the challenges that come with that.
    Last edited by 3703; 11-02-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #668
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    40,402
    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    wasn't Holding significantly quicker in pace than Garner too?
    I remember in the early 80s a Good Weekend magazine cover with the headline "Joel Garner: He doesn't look quick, but try facing him."

    The article interviewed the man himself, along with a lot of Australian top order players who each said he was as quick as any of the other WI bowlers.

    Of course, opinions may have been coloured by the fact he bowled good length balls which went past your rib cage. He was a great bowler. One of the very, very best.
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie
    "People make me happy.. not places.. people"

    "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson

    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

  9. #669
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    21,094
    I am not denying Garner's greatness, just that one of the reasons that Holding is rated so highly is that he could bowl consistently bowl lightning quick and not give away runs and keep the pressure on at one end. This would surely make it a lot easier for somebody at the other end to get wickets as well

  10. #670
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Hyderabad India
    Posts
    5,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketismylife View Post
    Ye I mentioned the Hadlee Lillee thing sometime before on this forum. It seems hard to rate Hadlee over Lillee, Hadlee has the better stats and a better rounded career (plus he can bat) However it's 2 main things which have Lillee over Hadlee and neither have anything to do with who was the better bowler

    1) Hadlee played for a small country like NZ who play series that most consider irrelevant, while Lillee played in the Ashes and Australia were always a big team. Hence it's a lot easier for people to remember Lillee's performances and for Lillee to become a "big match player". It's much easier to become a big match player in a 5 test Ashes series than in a minor New Zealand series which hardly anyone is properly following. This concept applies to Warne and Murali also.

    2) Lillee was the more aggressive personality and showman than Hadlee which made him more entertaining to watch, and as humans we are naturally more biased to rate the more entertaining player as being the better player even when it's not the case.
    There is so so much wrong with the arguments in that po. I need more time than I have to fully respond.

  11. #671
    State Captain
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dunno. I say Marco you say Polo.
    Posts
    1,878
    Find out what G Wood said of Garner. Opening the bowling he was fast, damn fast.

Page 45 of 45 FirstFirst ... 35434445


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pakistan's top 10 bowlers.....ever
    By Xuhaib in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-01-2012, 08:38 AM
  2. The worst person in the world
    By pasag in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 189
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 06:31 PM
  3. Is Michael Clarke the worst leaver in the game?
    By Mister Wright in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: 02-02-2009, 01:09 PM
  4. Replies: 68
    Last Post: 28-01-2009, 10:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •