Is Dale Steyn the worst ever best fast bowler in the world?

[the big bambino]

Look on reflection I favour Donald by a pip. I think he played against higher quality batsmen. I think I know the originator of this thread; Pasag. Not a bad bloke. But he sure pulled a boner here.

[centurymaker]

Originally Posted by the big bambino

Look on reflection I favour Donald by a pip. I think he played against higher quality batsmen. I think I know the originator of this thread; Pasag. Not a bad bloke. But he sure pulled a boner here.

short-term memory bias at play.
Steyn has played against the likes of Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid, Sangakkara, Clarke, KP and many very good batsmen. (younis, jayawardene, laxman, hussey, trott, cook, sehwag, hayden, chanders etc... )

Only in very recent times he has actually had to bowl to weak line-ups...

Cricket has reached a point where the greats and the very good players from the previous era have either retired, or are close to it!
Hence there's been a large drop off in quality around the world.
This has been exacerbated by the emergence of T20s, which has now resulted in producing young batsmen, who are less technicially sound and less patient, to replace those players...
recent phenomenon.

[the big bambino]

Its a fair point CM and I agree that stds have slipped but batting has been poor for a few seasons. I reckon too that the Indians, though much the same men, weren't as good as they were as in Donald's day. Much like the fact Steyn came up against a deteriorating Ponting rather than the one at his best.

Steyn's superb no doubt but I'd give it to the Donald. In a platonic sense of course.

[Spooony]

Originally Posted by the big bambino

Its a fair point CM and I agree that stds have slipped but batting has been poor for a few seasons. I reckon too that the Indians, though much the same men, weren't as good as they were as in Donald's day. Much like the fact Steyn came up against a deteriorating Ponting rather than the one at his best.

Steyn's superb no doubt but I'd give it to the Donald. In a platonic sense of course.

11 for 60

Batting have not been poor. In fact the batting avg per country went up as well as the scoring rates.

[the big bambino]

Originally Posted by Spooony

11 for 60

Cherry picking. Nice cherry but picked all the same. I could cherry pick a performance from Donald...

Anyway who cares. Its arguable and prefering Donald isn't an outrageous choice

[Spark]

Originally Posted by the big bambino

Its a fair point CM and I agree that stds have slipped but batting has been poor for a few seasons. I reckon too that the Indians, though much the same men, weren't as good as they were as in Donald's day. Much like the fact Steyn came up against a deteriorating Ponting rather than the one at his best.

Steyn's superb no doubt but I'd give it to the Donald. In a platonic sense of course.

Hmm I dunno. I'd say the Indian batting lineup Steyn tore to pieces multiple times from 07-10 was the best they've ever had, even accounting for form. Batting standards have certainly deteriorated as a general rule in the last half-decade - and I actually don't think that's because the pitches have flattened out all of a sudden. They've been flat for quite a while - in fact, I suspect the opposite has happened. There's a few more spicy decks appearing around the world nowadays, and batsmen have struggled slightly to readjust to them from the flatter decks.

Don't get me wrong, though. The guy is a ****ing beast and I'm with the posters who are saying that he's competing with McGrath for the best fast bowler I've seen live in my lifetime. Never seen anyone get so much swing after pitching on a middle-and-off line.

I'd like to see an analysis of Steyn against the top batsmen, though. My initial suspicion is that he'll have done very well against most of them. Just for kicks - though I guess such a picky statistical thing will be very, very sketchy because of samplesizelol.

[centurymaker]

steyn will in all probability finish ahead of donald.

amount of swing he gets is ridiculous.

no spinner in the world spins the ball as much as he swings it...

[NasserFan207]

Never mind Donald, by the end of his career Steyn could be challenging Marshall and co for greatest fast bowler ever IMO.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by centurymaker

steyn will in all probability finish ahead of donald.

amount of swing he gets is ridiculous.

no spinner in the world spins the ball as much as he swings it...

Haha that's both true and slightly depressing in a way

[WindieWeathers]

Originally Posted by NasserFan207

Never mind Donald, by the end of his career Steyn could be challenging Marshall and co for greatest fast bowler ever IMO.

Oh behave!! . He's fantastic no doubt, but lets not go overboard here. Maco never had any issues with lefties for a start, and faced tougher opposition imo.

[popepouri]

Is there still really an argument that Steyn struggles against lefties?

[Viscount Tom]

Steyn's better than Philander by a bit of a margin, its not to say Philander is much below Steyn but rather Philander is basically the Brian Statham to Steyn's Fred Trueman. One hammers out the basics incredibly well while the latter is the attacking bowler who's more likely to produce a spell that'll demolish an opposition from a set position.

[8ankitj]

Originally Posted by Spark

I'd like to see an analysis of Steyn against the top batsmen, though. My initial suspicion is that he'll have done very well against most of them. Just for kicks - though I guess such a picky statistical thing will be very, very sketchy because of samplesizelol.

FWIW, I redid this calculation for Steyn.

Then, he had a bowling average of 23.13, average value of wicket of 29.29, and discount factor of 79.0%. He was ranked #20

Now, he has a bowling average of 22.67, average value of wicket of 30.57, and discount factor of 74.2%. This will put him at #10 (without recalculating for others). Among those with 200+ wickets, he is behind only Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath (the margin is fair bit between these three and Steyn though).

[hendrix]

Originally Posted by Viscount Tom

Steyn's better than Philander by a bit of a margin, its not to say Philander is much below Steyn but rather Philander is basically the Brian Statham to Steyn's Fred Trueman. One hammers out the basics incredibly well while the latter is the attacking bowler who's more likely to produce a spell that'll demolish an opposition from a set position.

TBH I think they're both fantastic at very different bowling styles.

Tough to pick anyone in the world over Philander in seaming conditions.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by WindieWeathers

Oh behave!! . He's fantastic no doubt, but lets not go overboard here. Maco never had any issues with lefties for a start, and faced tougher opposition imo.

Worrying to agree with you twice in a few days. Marshall was a class above anyone else I have seen.

Steyn being under 30 may challenge the top wicket taking pace bowlers by the end of his career if he stays injury free though.