Is Dale Steyn the worst ever best fast bowler in the world?

[honestbharani]

just like most players, steyn will only be regarded as one of the greats once he has been retired for a few years, and people figure out just out good he really was compared to the bowlers left over.

He imo is in the same class as lillie, marshall, ambrose etc. He is the only bowler of today who is really.

awta

 

[SJS]

Want to make the disclaimer that I rate him so highly, and love watching him bowl.

But there is something so intensely personal about each wicket celebration, that pause after the decision is made, the deep breath and then the roar and fist pump in recognition of victory in battle. It strikes me as the type of celebration one would make after finding out that he'd made a representative team, and then excusing himself from everyone else, and going nuts in private.

It's sort of anti-showmanship, and I appreciate him all the more for it on a personal level; he'd probably do the same thing each time he took a wicket in backyard cricket, but I can see how his whole personality doesn't see people find him like others from the past.

I know exactly what you mean. One can only try to guess what it means to him. It is the kind of thing one sees with some 'thinking' bowlers. You plan and plot a batsman's downfall and it works and it is a personal triumph. I have seen something very similar from Prasanna. He was really one of those thinking and scheming bowlers. His celebrations were never over the top but when his mate and very close buddy Bishen Bedi was also in the playing eleven you should have seen them. They kept talking to each other a lot when either one or both were bowling. Then if one of them got a wicket, they would rush towards each other with those great big grins on their faces. Sometimes when they had really made a 'monkey' of the batsman they would burst into a guffaw. It was amazing to see at the fall of a wicket, their reaction as if only the two of them were there on the field of play. They were like schoolboys together enjoying the moment in which it was a joint victory for both every time. It was a delight to watch, never over the top, never offensive to the batsman and, of course, they never, EVER, said an unkind word to the batsman.

I don't know if it is a personal moment for Steyn as well who too comes out as a very intense individual who is wrapped up with his 'job' but I would like to think this might explain it to an extent. One doesn't know for sure, of course

 

[CricAddict]

Unable to view the image, but I guess it has Imran in it

 

[smash84]

Unable to view the image, but I guess it has Imran in it

haha.....indeed you guessed correctly

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Any excuse for smelly to whip out a pic of Imran.

 

[kyear2]

so true.

 

[MrPrez]

Absolutely awta

Steyn's achievements tower over Philander because he's proven himself over the last 5-6 years in virtually all conditions against every opposition. He's reaching Donald-level status now or is at least very close for me.
But Philander has been magnificent so far and could probably end up as good as Steyn if he carries on imo.

That said, Steyn tearing through a lineup is just awesome to watch... trumps Philander, or indeed most bowlers ever.

As much as I am absolutely addicted to seeing Steyn tear through a batting line-up, Philander is right up there with him for me. It may sound ridiculous, but watching him get that crazy seam movement and either force an edge or take out off-stump must be some of the most entertaining bits of cricket you could show me.

I haven't seen much of Malcolm Marshall, but from what I have heard, this is where some similarity lies. He's obviously realised that He can't keep terrorising the world over after over, so has developed the ability to take wickets at slower pace, while retaining his speed for short bursts when the team desperately needs a wicket.

It's more a case of him being at his best bowling at lower speeds. When he first came into the South African team, he was just trying to bowl as quick as he could, but then he slowed it down a bit and realised he could swing it. It has been a myth for a long time that he regularly bowls in the mid 140s. He has the ability to do so, but you'll only really see him doing it as the ball gets old, and therefore becomes a hampering to swing. He only really goes over 140kph in his opening spell when he bowls a bouncer, and it's been like that for the past few years.

Never mind Donald, by the end of his career Steyn could be challenging Marshall and co for greatest fast bowler ever IMO.

Don't agree, as much of a fan boy as I am.

When you ask the greats themselves (Richards, Hadlee, Wasim, Imran, Miandad, etc) two names crop up time and time again as to who they think is the greatest Test bowler. First is Marshall and second is Lillee. McGrath and Ambrose aren't mentioned.

That's cherry-picking though. Most of those greats played most of their cricket against the likes of Marshall, and were brought up on the likes of Lillee. It's much like how you'll find people like me rating the likes of McGrath and Steyn ahead of any future stars, because we grew up either watching them, or with them being the big names immediately before the generation of cricketers that we have followed.

 

[jan]

I know exactly what you mean. One can only try to guess what it means to him. It is the kind of thing one sees with some 'thinking' bowlers. You plan and plot a batsman's downfall and it works and it is a personal triumph. I have seen something very similar from Prasanna. He was really one of those thinking and scheming bowlers. His celebrations were never over the top but when his mate and very close buddy Bishen Bedi was also in the playing eleven you should have seen them. They kept talking to each other a lot when either one or both were bowling. Then if one of them got a wicket, they would rush towards each other with those great big grins on their faces. Sometimes when they had really made a 'monkey' of the batsman they would burst into a guffaw. It was amazing to see at the fall of a wicket, their reaction as if only the two of them were there on the field of play. They were like schoolboys together enjoying the moment in which it was a joint victory for both every time. It was a delight to watch, never over the top, never offensive to the batsman and, of course, they never, EVER, said an unkind word to the batsman.

I don't know if it is a personal moment for Steyn as well who too comes out as a very intense individual who is wrapped up with his 'job' but I would like to think this might explain it to an extent. One doesn't know for sure, of course

There is something beautifully primeval about his celebration. The primitive, instictive joy of victorious moment. Its like a caveman who felled a mammoth with spear throw at its heart knowing his family will survive winter now
Violent it may seem these days but imo it is so sincere I cannot but admire the man for being so dedicated to the game. Steyn must be a very serious man.

 

[MrPrez]

Tahir is an amazing chap

 

[Cabinet96]

The thing that amazes me about Steyn is that he seems such a cool customer off the field, or even when he's not bowling. When I was at the Oval for the first day of the South Africa series he spent his time at fine leg for the last 20 minutes of play chatting to people in the crowd.

 

[MrPrez]

The thing that amazes me about Steyn is that he seems such a cool customer off the field, or even when he's not bowling. When I was at the Oval for the first day of the South Africa series he spent his time at fine leg for the last 20 minutes of play chatting to people in the crowd.

I basically think of him as the stereotypical South African to outsiders. Seems quite arrogant, and could get quite annoying after a while due to his arrogant attitude.

At the same time it's clear that he's a top chap who cares about his and his team's performance a ton.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Didn't know South Africans were stereotyped as arrogant.

Is there a YouTube clip of Steyn bowling a leg-cutter?

 

[kyear2]

Ultimately fast bowlers are judged much in the way as Quarterbacks or pitchers, stats are great but the greatest ones are judged by winning and transforming their teams to world championship units. Lindwall, Lillee, Holding, Marshall, Mcgrath ect. Bottom line if Steyn can take South Africa to that other level and maintain their status as just not the world's # 1test team but one of thr All Time great teams, that will only elevate his status and the sky is the limit.

 

[Coronis]

Ultimately fast bowlers are judged much in the way as Quarterbacks or pitchers, stats are great but the greatest ones are judged by winning and transforming their teams to world championship units. Lindwall, Lillee, Holding, Marshall, Mcgrath ect. Bottom line if Steyn can take South Africa to that other level and maintain their status as just not the world's # 1test team but one of thr All Time great teams, that will only elevate his status and the sky is the limit.

Well thats a ridiculous way to judge them. Hadlee couldn't have done more to make NZ a world beater in his day and I'd rate him higher than half the bowlers you just posted.

Also, didn't know that Lindwall took us to the top, I thought that was Bradman?

 

[MartinB]

Well thats a ridiculous way to judge them. Hadlee couldn't have done more to make NZ a world beater in his day and I'd rate him higher than half the bowlers you just posted.

Also, didn't know that Lindwall took us to the top, I thought that was Bradman?

While hadlee was an exellent bowler, I wouldnt rate him higher than most of the bowlers listed. Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Marshal where more dangerous on flat wickets.

While Lindwall, Miller did not take Austalia, they did take Australia to a different Level in the late 40's.

 

[FBU]

He is the best Test fast bowler but why isn't he the best ODI bowler as well?

 

[smash84]

Ultimately fast bowlers are judged much in the way as Quarterbacks or pitchers, stats are great but the greatest ones are judged by winning and transforming their teams to world championship units. Lindwall, Lillee, Holding, Marshall, Mcgrath ect. Bottom line if Steyn can take South Africa to that other level and maintain their status as just not the world's # 1test team but one of thr All Time great teams, that will only elevate his status and the sky is the limit.

This is quite silly

While hadlee was an exellent bowler, I wouldnt rate him higher than most of the bowlers listed. Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Marshal where more dangerous on flat wickets.
.

Lillee more dangerous than Hadlee on flat tracks?

 

[Jono]

Surely Hadlee is undisputedly rated the better bowler than Roberts?

 

[Red]

While hadlee was an exellent bowler, I wouldnt rate him higher than most of the bowlers listed. Lillee, Holding, Roberts, Marshal where more dangerous on flat wickets.

While Lindwall, Miller did not take Austalia, they did take Australia to a different Level in the late 40's.

Hadlee is top shelf stuff. Certainly belongs in the conversation with the others.

No international cricketer has ever been more important to his team than Hadlee was to NZ.

 

[Satyanash89]

Ultimately fast bowlers are judged much in the way as Quarterbacks or pitchers, stats are great but the greatest ones are judged by winning and transforming their teams to world championship units. Lindwall, Lillee, Holding, Marshall, Mcgrath ect. Bottom line if Steyn can take South Africa to that other level and maintain their status as just not the world's # 1test team but one of thr All Time great teams, that will only elevate his status and the sky is the limit.

While i dont agree at all with you on how to judge a fast bowler's greatness, Steyn has already done plenty to make SA a great team.
On two consecutive tours to Australia, he's produced brilliant series-clinching spells. It doesnt get much better than that imo. Tearing through India at Nagpur on a road was special too... not many bowlers in history can claim to have ripped through a top class batting lineup in conditions not at all conducive to swing bowling.

Steyn's already in that elite bracket of fast bowlers, i have to laugh at people who are for some reason, not willing to admit he's already an ATG. He's proved pretty much everything a bowler needs to do to go down as a great.