Cricket Player Manager
Page 12 of 45 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 671

Thread: Is Dale Steyn the worst ever best fast bowler in the world?

  1. #166
    First Class Debutant
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    LMAO - coz no one would want a bowler taking 500+ test wickets at 21ish, because he bowls "boring".

    Bet it wasn't boring for the bloke 22 yards away trying to play him.
    Oh ho ...i was talking from a pure spectators point of view .We had Mcgrath as number one before Steyn who i didn't prefer to watch .Now Steyn as number 1 who i love to watch .



    No comparisons made here.

  2. #167
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    42,085
    Quote Originally Posted by TT Boy View Post
    Yeah good shout.
    Seconded
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie
    "People make me happy.. not places.. people"
    "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson

    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

    #408. Sixty three not out forever.

  3. #168
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    45,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Surely Harmison has to be the worst!?
    Quote Originally Posted by dontcloseyoureyes View Post
    But while Harmison was "number 1" McGrath was still playing. Going on rankings in this case is silly as they are very rarely correct.
    Yeah, agree with DCYE here. Outside of the more parochial corners of County Durham I doubt many cricket followers really believed Harmison was the best seam-up bowler in the world, whatever the rankings said, which is why I added this disclaimer:

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Have to say that from the time I've been watching it's hard to recall a player who was (by consensus rather than ranking) regarded as the best who was such a (relatively) minor talent.
    If we go by the old PWC (dunno who does it now) rankings then it's almost certainly Harmy tho, yes.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "I don't believe a word of Pietersen's book, but then I don't believe a word anyone else has said either."
    - Simon Barnes renders further comment on KP's autobiography superfluous in a sentence

  4. #169
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    Dear Pasag,

    I'm sorry to hear about the passing of your credible question that had the potential to provide some interesting, non-trollish discussion. It is with deepest sympathies that I send this card.

    Yours Truly,

    Clapo
    Quality.
    Member of the Twenty20 is Boring Society

    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    C'mon Man U.
    RIP Craigos


  5. #170
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,519
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    The worst era for fast bowling was the void between Larwood in 1933 and the late 40's when Lindwall and Miller arrived - Off the top of my head I cant think of anyone in that era who was genuinely quick let alone of any real class
    Shocked you've overlooked the tragic Ken Farnes.

  6. #171
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,519
    This is a really interesting thread (when you filter out the direness, which admittedly is a lot). Joining so late in the thread most of my thoughts have been articulated already by others but I think if we consider Brett Lee to have been the best fast bowler in the world a couple of years ago then he's inferior to Steyn.

    Beyond that I reckon you'd have to go back to the late 1960s between the retirements of Trueman/Davo and the coming of DK Lillee. Wes Hall, Peter Pollock, Garth McKenzie and John Snow were very, very fine bowlers but I'd question whether they were clearly better than Steyn - there's not much in it in my opinion, which probably more than anything shows how highly I rate him.

    Steyn of course need several more years of high achievement to be considered among the true greats but I think he's well on the way.

  7. #172
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    7,519
    In relation to a number of mentions of Wes Hall in this thread, and how the 1960s compared with other eras, when Tom Graveney (who faced all the greats of the 50s and 60s) wrote his "Top 10" cricket book in 1982 he considered Wes Hall the second greatest fast bowler since WWII, which is considerably higher than I think any of us would place him. His Top 10 was:

    1. Ray Lindwall
    2. Wes Hall
    3. Dennis Lillee
    4. Brian Statham
    5. Fred Trueman
    6. Michael Holding
    7. Keith Miller
    8. Frank Tyson
    9. Andy Roberts
    10. Alan Davidson

    It would be interesting to see how that list would have changed 27 years on.

  8. #173
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Surely Harmison has to be the worst!?
    But Harmison wasn't the best bowler around at the time. No chance. He was just erroneously ranked so after 3 bad Tests and 1 good one.

    If we said every bowler to top the ICC Form Rankings (which is all they are) qualified we'd have a never-ending list.
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006

  9. #174
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by The Sean View Post
    This is a really interesting thread (when you filter out the direness, which admittedly is a lot). Joining so late in the thread most of my thoughts have been articulated already by others but I think if we consider Brett Lee to have been the best fast bowler in the world a couple of years ago then he's inferior to Steyn.

    Beyond that I reckon you'd have to go back to the late 1960s between the retirements of Trueman/Davo and the coming of DK Lillee. Wes Hall, Peter Pollock, Garth McKenzie and John Snow were very, very fine bowlers but I'd question whether they were clearly better than Steyn - there's not much in it in my opinion, which probably more than anything shows how highly I rate him.
    I'd have Wesley Winfield at his best as better than Steyn, no doubts. But the time when he was at his best was essentially the same time as Trueman and Davidson. He went on for maybe a year longer. After 1965, he too was a force of no great note.

    And as I say, I think Peter Pollock was probably > Steyn as well, but that's perhaps open to question.

    Already mentioned the Snow case plenty TBH - I'm sure you, unlike some, know just how good Snow really was without judging purely on his banal Test career average.

  10. #175
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Burgess Hill
    Posts
    8,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Also I don't think Waqar's pace was ever "dramatically" reduced as he was still bowling at close to 90mph against England in 2000/01 (despite very hot conditions) and 2001. At his very best, I can't imagine he was ever much more than 93-94mph at top speed (no-one ever talked of him being as fast as Shoaib Akhtar in his prime, whose average was 88-92 sort of range). I'm sure the injury took a bit of pace off him but I don't think it was much more than 3-4mph.
    I know we've been over this before but I would put Waqar in his early days (89-91) as up there with Shoaib / Lee for pace. I can't prove it, of course, and I appreciate that his late inswing might have given the impression of greater pace than he in fact generated.

    However he was the fastest bowler in the world at the time, faster imho than Patterson or Donald. Cricinfo's pen portrait says that "In his youth, he was one of the fastest ever" and I think that pretty much sums it up.

    How he would have performed but for that injury is impossible to say. But he was very very quick before his injury, and post-injury bowled at around Darren Gough sort of speed ie on the borderline between RFM and RF.

  11. #176
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,812
    A year ago, when Lee was taking Indian wickets to stake his claim for the number one spot, I thought for sure he was the best fast bowler in the world. Sure, Dale Steyn was tearing through New Zealand and had just had an unbelievable year, but I thought that was just a purple patch and only Lee would go on to maintain his form.

    In hindsight, i think Steyn really was the best in the world at that time- he hadn't yet proven it, but in terms of ability, he was. His purple patch has gone on too long to maintain anything else. Funnily enough, that means that Lee never really was the world number one fast bowler, which pretty much hands the title to Dale Steyn on a platter.

    It's a question that's probably been asked of other greats early in their careers though. If he continues to play so well throughout his career I'm sure we'll look back on this thread in the same way as we'd look back on a "is Wasim Akram the worst fast bowler ever?" thread now.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  12. #177
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Heaven
    Posts
    8,437
    I think that the extreme pace will desert Steyn after a while, after which time he'll come toward the pack so to speak. How far he comes toward the pack will determine his legacy, imo.

  13. #178
    Cricket Web Content Updater roseboy64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Jamaica
    Posts
    18,574
    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I think that the extreme pace will desert Steyn after a while, after which time he'll come toward the pack so to speak. How far he comes toward the pack will determine his legacy, imo.
    He'd have picked up quite a lot of wicket s by then though.
    Sir Alexander Chapman Ferguson = Greatest Ever Manager
    "One from ten leaves zero." - Eric Williams, former T&T PM
    Member of Cricket Web Green
    Member of Northside Power

    R.I.P Fardin Qayyumi

  14. #179
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Heaven
    Posts
    8,437
    Certainly would have likely reached the 250-300 mark, but I am willing to bet that his extreme pace will desert him quite early in his career, similar to Waqar Younis.

  15. #180
    State Vice-Captain
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Waqar's back injury undoubtedly didn't help but are you really telling me that you think if he'd not suffered it he'd have been able to keep bowling as he bowled between 1990/91 and 1994/95 until, say, 2000/01? I don't. I can't see anyone keeping-up such sensational brilliance for more than a few years. Frank Tyson between '54 and '57 was in the same boat. Also I don't think Waqar's pace was ever "dramatically" reduced as he was still bowling at close to 90mph against England in 2000/01 (despite very hot conditions) and 2001. At his very best, I can't imagine he was ever much more than 93-94mph at top speed (no-one ever talked of him being as fast as Shoaib Akhtar in his prime, whose average was 88-92 sort of range). I'm sure the injury took a bit of pace off him but I don't think it was much more than 3-4mph.
    That's not true actually. Waqar at his peak was as fast if not faster than Shoaib, and many of the players who played with both Waqar and Shoaib attest to this fact. He was express pace (90+ average) but after his injury he struggled to even break the 90s barrier. Anyone who saw Waqar bowl afterwards knows he couldn't beat the batsmen out of sheer pace like he used to. And the fact that his injury can account for this can be seen in his dramatic and almost immediate loss of form after his back injury in 94/95, which coincided with the end of his peak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not being able to sustain the sort of form Steyn has shown the last 2-and-three-quarter years is not due to losing the script; it's just due to the fact that no-one can bowl so devastatingly for more than a few years at a time. It's just beyond capability. Steyn is bowling as well now as he is capable of in my book and no-one can bowl at the top of their game non-stop for 10-12 years.
    But every indication is that Steyn seems to be learning how to be a better bowler, as he showed in Australia, and his outswinger doesn't seem to be going anywhere. It's rare for any major bowler to lose a natural stock delivery.

Page 12 of 45 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pakistan's top 10 bowlers.....ever
    By Xuhaib in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-01-2012, 09:38 AM
  2. The worst person in the world
    By pasag in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 189
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 07:31 PM
  3. Is Michael Clarke the worst leaver in the game?
    By Mister Wright in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: 02-02-2009, 02:09 PM
  4. Replies: 68
    Last Post: 28-01-2009, 11:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •