Precambrian
Banned
Wrong perception. I don;t think anyone can take 200+ test wickets by just bowling at tailenders or with cheap Bang and Zim wickets.
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Choose the two opening bowlers for Post Packer World XI
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
Beleg
International Regular
Kallis is a better all-rounder than Sobers ever was.
But I guess the fact that you have a boner for pre-modern era cricketers cannot be helped.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
You seem very unequivocal about that. How do you figure?
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
At the time the perception was fair enough - this was a couple of years ago and it could be shown pretty clearly that Kallis' numbers - in both batting and bowling - were boosted significantly by cashing in heavily against the minnows.
To his credit, he's now more than proven his ability to score runs and take wickets against pretty much anybody, and the criticism is much less valid in my opinion.
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archie mac
International Coach
The first statement is the silliest one you have made on this site, and it had some stiff competition
The 2nd statement is a mystery to me, I think Akram the best leftarmer in the history of the game
Sachin and Lara two of the best batsman I have ever watched
Warne is the 2nd best leg spinner in the history of the game
Ponting is 2nd or maybe third to Bradman as far as Aust. batsman go
Gilly is the best batsman/WK in the history of the game
And I could watch VVS Laxman all day, and I think Dumini (spelling) looks a great player and very stylish which I always like to watch
Just because I also rate players that played before you were born is nothing I feel the need to apologise for
Beleg
International Regular
Try harder next time.The first statement is the silliest one you have made on this site, and it had some stiff competition
Nonsensical red-herrings.The 2nd statement is a mystery to me, I think Akram the best leftarmer in the history of the game
Sachin and Lara two of the best batsman I have ever watched
Warne is the 2nd best leg spinner in the history of the game
Ponting is 2nd or maybe third to Bradman as far as Aust. batsman go
Gilly is the best batsman/WK in the history of the game
And I could watch VVS Laxman all day, and I think Dumini (spelling) looks a great player and very stylish which I always like to watch
Just because I also rate players that played before you were born is nothing I feel the need to apologise for
None of the individual statements above detract from the fact that you have, over the years, exhibited an undeniable bias towards players who happen to be glorified in cricketing lore. Kallis' record is broadly comparable to Sobers' achievements - and in many aspects - (better adversaries, a far more challenging cricketing climate, a packed cricket calendar, performance over a greater variety of pitches and conditions) eclipses him. For you to then call someone's claim 'ridiculous' is as clear an evidence of wishful, rose-tinted specs as I have ever seen.
Sean,
as I alluded to earlier, the following are the major reasons I consider Kallis to be a better all-rounder than Sobers.
archie mac
International Coach
They made sense
Well argued
Again your lack of knowledge is embarrassing, Sobers was one of the first truly professional cricketers, he played pretty much all year round, playing every season in England which was six days a week, and more often then not he would play on Sunday as well.
He would then spent the off season playing back on the WI, Aust. or travelling somewhere with a 'select XI'. Sobers played all over the world, and was considered by everyone to be the best batsman of his generation one of the best fieldsman and the most versatile bowlers in the history of the game.
Let me say that I have nothing but great respect for Kallis, he is his a great player in the truest sense of the word, but imo not as great as Sobers
Top_Cat
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Key phrase 'for a while'. And it was uncanny how often he'd go missing against the top sides yet miraculously re-appear when some soft wickets were on offer.
Top_Cat
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Agreed with that. Bowled really well without a lot of luck this summer.
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Bowled very well against Yousuf when he had just finished his run scoring marathon in 06/07.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
OK Hadlee and McGrath are two of the finest fast bowlers in history. I couldn't choose between them and I doubt anyone but the most one-eyed Aussie or Kiwi would consider the contest to be anything other than extremely close.
Hadlee had more variety but McGrath's effectiveness, in an era where bat has dominated ball around the world, was quite amazing.
On the basis that they can't really be separated as bowlers, surely Hadlee's enormously dangerous batting must swing it in his favour?
The idea of a lower/middle order with Gilchrist at 7, Hadlee 8, Marshall 9, and (probably) Warne at 10 is pretty mouthwatering.
Hadlee had more variety but McGrath's effectiveness, in an era where bat has dominated ball around the world, was quite amazing.
On the basis that they can't really be separated as bowlers, surely Hadlee's enormously dangerous batting must swing it in his favour?
The idea of a lower/middle order with Gilchrist at 7, Hadlee 8, Marshall 9, and (probably) Warne at 10 is pretty mouthwatering.
Precambrian
Banned
Sobers had his own critics till he shut them up with his glorious 365, didnt he? You can't say "he was like this that point of time".
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Precambrian
Banned
Sobers played around the world? He played in England. And if you think FC matches (regardless of their standards, which was quite high for County cricket in those days) are as pressurising as International matches, you are only deluding yourselves.They made sense
Again your lack of knowledge is embarrassing, Sobers was one of the first truly professional cricketers, he played pretty much all year round, playing every season in England which was six days a week, and more often then not he would play on Sunday as well.
He would then spent the off season playing back on the WI, Aust. or travelling somewhere with a 'select XI'. Sobers played all over the world, and was considered by everyone to be the best batsman of his generation one of the best fieldsman and the most versatile bowlers in the history of the game.
Let me say that I have nothing but great respect for Kallis, he is his a great player in the truest sense of the word, but imo not as great as Sobers
Kallis and Sobers have near identical batting stats at the end of 93 matches that Sobers played.
And Kallis has a better bowling record as compared to Sobers.
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zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
S'obers?
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Not to be confused with the Irish colonel S. O'Bers
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
You mean the 365 he got in his 17th Test at the age of 21?
I'm confused. Why can't you say that? Can you not assess a player at various points in their career and see how they've improved/declined/changed/adapted?
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Precambrian
Banned
Well noted.
Corrected. Was typing out too many replies with too little time for review.
Slifer
International Captain
Get ur facts straight. Sobers played 3 seasons of Sheffielf Shield cricket from '62-'64 and in 2 of the 3 seasons he achieved the very rare feat of scoring 1000 runs and taking 50 wkts (he scored 973 runs @73 in the other season and took 47 wkts).
Precambrian
Banned
Where did I say his FC experience was purely in England?
