Mathew Hayden Vs. Other Openers

[Sanz]

It is almost 15 years since Mathew Hayden made his debut vs. South Africa, I dont seem to remember any other opener making that kind of mark in World Cricket, heck I dont see too many batsmen making that kind of mark in World cricket during that period, yet the guy gets so little respect, One wonders why ?

So where does he stand among the great openers of the game ? With the exception of Sunil Gavaskar, Is there anyone in last 30-40 years who had as much success as Hayden as an opener ? Who are the the other openers you would take ahead of him and based on what logic ?

Please discuss, and lets keep this discussion/Comparison limited to Openers.

PS :- Please do not merge this with the tribute thread, I believe this is a seperate topic and merits its own thread.

 

[Matt79]

In before this thread goes down the same route as the 2000 other threads that have become mired in the Hayden = ftb trench warfare.

For the record, following his second coming he was a brilliant test batsman who k we his game and changed the game. I'd have his circa 6-9 on my all time opener list and the have been none better in the last 8 years.

 

[aussie]

He gets little respect because many still foolishly label him as a FTB that was weak againts quality bowling attacks. Has a man who has seen all of his test since WI 2000, he did have this problem between IND 01 to Ashes 05.

But that was down MAINLY, to him developing this bully aura in againts the average pace-attacks around the world, than any perceived inability to tacke good bowling in tough conditions. Since post Ashes 05 (up until this season), he had eradicated those views by scoring good runs againts some good pace attacks in testing conditions.


On openers in history i'd have over him over the last 30-40 years. I'd go with Gavaskar, Greenidge & potentially Barry Richards without much thought. You can argue his case with the likes of Haynes, Gooch, Simpson, Majid Khan, Boycott though...

 

[Athlai]

In before this thread goes down the same route as the 2000 other threads that have become mired in the Hayden = ftb trench warfare.

For the record, following his second coming he was a brilliant test batsman who k we his game and changed the game. I'd have his circa 6-9 on my all time opener list and the have been none better in the last 8 years.

Personally I reckon Smith and Sehwag could give him a run for his money in the last 8 years.

Oh and Katich!!! [/fanboy]

 

[aussie]

Personally I reckon Smith and Sehwag could give him a run for his money in the last 8 years.

Oh and Katich!!! [/fanboy]

Just like Hayden. The FTB & not being able to score runs againts good bowlers in tough conditions arguments will be placed on Smith & Sehwag too.

But in counter-action to FACT that this 2000s era, is full of flat track & average pace attacks. I would say the best way to judge batsmen in this era, is to see how they go the few times they do come up againts good bowling attacks in testing conditions. Since it has existed over the past 8 years.

Hayden did that & the maturing Sehwag & Smith have not yet, so that question mark still technically is on them.

 

[Jono]

Part of it surely has to do with the fact he acts like a dickhead.

 

[Athlai]

Just like Hayden. The FTB & not being able to score runs againts good bowlers in tough conditions arguments will be placed on Smith & Sehwag too.

But in counter-action to FACT that this 2000s era, is full of flat track & average pace attacks. I would say the best way to judge batsmen in this era, is to see how they go the few times they do come up againts good bowling attacks in testing conditions. Since it has existed over the past 8 years.

Hayden did that & the maturing Sehwag & Smith have not yet, so that question mark still technically is on them.

Yeah agreed but they'd be close on his heels which is the point I was making.

 

[Athlai]

Part of it surely has to do with the fact he acts like a dickhead.

Yeah I ****ing hate the bloke and only that massive knock against us in the CH makes me give him his due. Bastard.

 

[Jono]

Hayden did that & the maturing Sehwag & Smith have not yet, so that question mark still technically is on them.

Sehwag hasn't tonned up vs. Warne, McGrath, Gillespie and Kasprowicz in their pomp?

Sehwag hasn't scored an unbeaten double ton vs. Murali and Mendis on a spinner's track?

 

[Athlai]

Sehwag hasn't tonned up vs. Warne, McGrath, Gillespie and Kasprowicz in their pomp?

Sehwag hasn't scored an unbeaten double ton vs. Murali and Mendis on a spinner's track?

And is even more of a bully on flat tracks IMO. Dominates

 

[honestbharani]

Sehwag, Hayden and I guess Smith are/were criminally underrated around here..

 

[DaRick]

Well, he's certainly better than his Australian contempoaries (Slater/Langer/Taylor).

As for the best opener in the world, he was for quite a long time...until more recently, when Virender Sehwag and Graeme Smith became more prolific than before.

As for across eras, its difficult to compare.

 

[duffer]

Part of it surely has to do with the fact he acts like a dickhead.

Nailed it. Although probably more than a part though.

 

[DaRick]

Nailed it. Although probably more than a part though.

According to Harsha Bhogle (?), he was quite different off the field.

 

[aussie]

Sehwag hasn't tonned up vs. Warne, McGrath, Gillespie and Kasprowicz in their pomp?

Yes, a brilliant innings too. But it was on the flattest track of the series along with Bangalore. He was well exposed in Nagpur in Mumbai. Plus even after he smashed the 317 vs SA, next test on a testing pitch Steyn bowled him that typical inswinger back into the pads.

So although i believe since his Adelaide hundred, Sehwag has matured. He is very vulnerable againts top pace attacks, who would be able to hit that weakness often.

Sehwag hasn't scored an unbeaten double ton vs. Murali and Mendis on a spinner's track?

Was more refering to runs againts pace attacks in tough conditions. His performances in SRI, as i just mentioned showed a maturing Sehwag that now must undenaibly go down as the greatest Indian opener behind Gavaskar. (No need to suggest Merchant anymore).

 

[Nutter]

A great modern opener in my book. NZ would kill to have an opener averaging in the 40's, let alone Hayden's 50+ and the rate he scores at.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Hayden would have a fair claim to be in Australia's all-time XI opening. Not a definite pick by any means, but he'd go close.

He would be a definite pick opening in a World XI for this decade though, would be the first opener picked. That says a lot about his quality. An excellent batsman. Not quite on the level of guys like Ponting and Lara in recent times, but certainly very good, on the next level down.

Definitely revolutionised the idea of what openers do too, along with Langer. Some of the partnerships those guys had in the early 2000s in which they scored at 5 an over would never have been seen in days past. And while that has something to do with the bowling and the wickets, it's not only that. It's also about the general approach. Batsmen like Sehwag and Smith have followed in those footsteps.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

On another note, it's interesting to think about Hayden's one day legacy.

He was never really a great ODI batsmen for most of his career, a bit too boundary oriented, but his second or third or whatever coming as an ODI batsmen in 2007 really set him apart. I wonder if he'll be considered a great ODI batsman or not, based on his record.

 

[Jono]

Nailed it. Although probably more than a part though.

Yep. I distinctly remember Sanz saying he was no longer a fan of Hayden's as well, due to his behaviour.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/1492787-post81.html

Mind you I still rate Hayden highly, as I said in his tribute thread. Best opener I've ever seen. But the fact is, if you're a player with a poor attitude, and your record can have holes found in it, people will concentrate on those holes. Why hail someone you don't like as a champion?

 

[pskov]

On another note, it's interesting to think about Hayden's one day legacy.

He was never really a great ODI batsmen for most of his career, a bit too boundary oriented, but his second or third or whatever coming as an ODI batsmen in 2007 really set him apart. I wonder if he'll be considered a great ODI batsman or not, based on his record.

He averaged over 40 when he was dropped from ODIs the second time in 2005, which to me at the time was a very strange decision. He had an iffy test series in the Ashes as everyone remembers but then was for some reason dropped from the ODI team even though he had been pretty good in the tri-series with Bangladesh beforehand.

Regardless, he was definitely a great ODI batsman.