*Official* England in West Indies

[Athlai]

I have yet to see him produce a convincing performance.

Napier.

 

[superkingdave]

Guess this leadership announcement things cements the team for the first test barring injuries.

Strauss
Cook
Bell
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Sidebottom
Harmison
Panesar

Will be gutting for Jimmy but that's how it looks.

 

[Prince EWS]

Cricinfo - Players must 'start thinking a bit more' - Strauss

Well the dreaded management committee is back and it will be

Tests
Flintoff, Collingwood, Cook and Broad,

ODIs
Flintoff, Collingwood, Broad and Pietersen

Harmison can't be too happy with that. As for Broad being a future captain...

So Broad's in the management committee for Tests despite the fact that he clearly shouldn't be playing them? Awesome...

 

[NUFAN]

So Broad's in the management committee for Tests despite the fact that he clearly shouldn't be playing them? Awesome...

They've picked 16 players on the touring party. Hopefully Broad has been picked to manage himself and the other 4 players sitting out.

 

[Prince EWS]

Napier.

Yeah, he bowled a couple of good spells against a poor batting lineup in one Test. Unfortunately for him, he's played nine other Tests and averaged in excess of 45 with the ball in them. Not only that, but he's looked absolutely toothless in all of them and his First Class record is modest. He's actually batted pretty well at Test level but he always looks really vulnerable early and his First Class record suggests his Test batting efforts have been beyond what you could usually expect from him.

It's been a neverending cycle with him - he plays a Test, looks horrible, gets dropped, then comes back into the team for the ODIs, looks really good, gets put back into the Test team, looks horrible, etc etc. It's time to realise that he should be an ODI-only option at this stage of his career.

He certainly has potential as a player but he's a long way off being Test standard at the moment, particularly when you compare him to the improvements James Anderson has made since he came back into the team. I can accept his place in the squad due to the strange balance England have to employ with Flintoff at 6 but he definitely shouldn't have a guaranteed place (or in fact, any starting XI place) in the Test team at the moment.

 

[honestbharani]

I juz think the ECB has done a horrible job recently and I don't really see how that dressing room is going to all that united anytime soon..


It seems pretty obvious that Flintoff didn't agree with Pieterson's views as a captain and has basically led to his sacking.. As Boycott said, it is all very well to see if a captain has the backing of the players but when you appoint a strong willed guy as a captain and decide to back him, you gotta back him to the hilt. If he fails after that (and failure should be judged at least after a year or so of his captaincy..), then you go back to others.


And if you don't want to back him fully, then don't make him captain in the first place. I am almost sure that the dressing room is a more divided place now than it was when Pieterson first took over and the ECB is to be blamed completely for that. Maybe as a player, Flintoff was comfortable with the coach but I always believe that, at least in cricket, the captain and coach is a team and both have to be equally comfortable with each other. I am yet to see a successful captain-coach combination who didn't trust each others' vision and were comfortable with each others' way of functioning..


I just hope they have not messed up the potentially best middle order batsman they have had in recent years with all this... And I do think it was stupid of Flintoff and other senior players if they did say stuff like "both of them should not go."... That, to me, sounds like a civilized way of saying "we don't trust in KP"... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to have figured out that only one was going to stay on once the spat broke out and probably both would go...

 

[garage flower]

Windies first test line-up

Only one more round of regional games, plus the Windies A match, to influence first test selection and still a number of places up for grabs. As I see it, the current situation is something like this (bold should be certain picks):

Openers
Gayle
De Smith/Richards/Chattergoon/Barath/Powell

Middle order
Sarwan
Shiv
(plus two from) B Nash/R Hinds/D Ganga/Marshall/W Hinds/Deonarine/Banks/Da Bravo/Johnson/Simmons/Pollard

Keeper
Ramdin

Pace bowlers
Taylor
Edwards
Powell/Roach/Baker/Sammy/Pascal/Bess/E Crandon

Spinner
Benn/Wallace/Jaggernauth/Miller/Mohammed/Brown/Shillingford


This is predicated on the almost certain absence of Dwayne Bravo from the first test. Many of the potential players listed should – I appreciate – be regarded as extremely unlikely picks, but merit consideration either on the basis of a promising start to the first class season or their selection for the ‘A’ team.

I guess current performance coupled – in some cases - with established quality (at domestic level) would see the following players fill in the blanks: De Smith, R Hinds, Nash, Roach, Wallace.

EDITED: forgot about Nash - had Ganga in instead!! Guess Nash is borderline certain pick (if that isn't too contradictory!)

 

[Athlai]

Yeah, he bowled a couple of good spells against a poor batting lineup in one Test. Unfortunately for him, he's played nine other Tests and averaged in excess of 45 with the ball in them. Not only that, but he's looked absolutely toothless in all of them and his First Class record is modest. He's actually batted pretty well at Test level but he always looks really vulnerable early and his First Class record suggests his Test batting efforts have been beyond what you could usually expect from him.

A poor batting lineup which put up a good score on a batsman's surface mind you.

 

[superkingdave]

Would be nice to see Richards get a game, but i would have thought the selectors might think he's not a long term option.

 

[Uppercut]

A poor batting lineup which put up a good score on a batsman's surface mind you.

You don't average considerably more than Sajid Mahmood and Liam Plunkett with the ball unless you're a pretty damn dire bowler.

 

[garage flower]

Would be nice to see Richards get a game, but i would have thought the selectors might think he's not a long term option.

I think that, given the failures of the younger players in NZ, the selectors may opt for experience in the coming season. Richards might be pipped by Devon Smith though.

 

[FBU]

Yeah, he bowled a couple of good spells against a poor batting lineup in one Test. Unfortunately for him, he's played nine other Tests and averaged in excess of 45 with the ball in them. Not only that, but he's looked absolutely toothless in all of them and his First Class record is modest. He's actually batted pretty well at Test level but he always looks really vulnerable early and his First Class record suggests his Test batting efforts have been beyond what you could usually expect from him.

It's been a neverending cycle with him - he plays a Test, looks horrible, gets dropped, then comes back into the team for the ODIs, looks really good, gets put back into the Test team, looks horrible, etc etc. It's time to realise that he should be an ODI-only option at this stage of his career.

He certainly has potential as a player but he's a long way off being Test standard at the moment, particularly when you compare him to the improvements James Anderson has made since he came back into the team. I can accept his place in the squad due to the strange balance England have to employ with Flintoff at 6 but he definitely shouldn't have a guaranteed place (or in fact, any starting XI place) in the Test team at the moment.

I agree completely.

 

[aussie]

Only one more round of regional games, plus the Windies A match, to influence first test selection and still a number of places up for grabs. As I see it, the current situation is something like this (bold should be certain picks):

Openers
Gayle
De Smith/Richards/Chattergoon/Barath/Powell

Middle order
Sarwan
Shiv
(plus two from) B Nash/R Hinds/D Ganga/Marshall/W Hinds/Deonarine/Banks/Da Bravo/Johnson/Simmons/Pollard

Keeper
Ramdin

Pace bowlers
Taylor
Edwards
Powell/Roach/Baker/Sammy/Pascal/Bess/E Crandon

Spinner
Benn/Wallace/Jaggernauth/Miller/Mohammed/Brown/Shillingford


This is predicated on the almost certain absence of Dwayne Bravo from the first test. Many of the potential players listed should – I appreciate – be regarded as extremely unlikely picks, but merit consideration either on the basis of a promising start to the first class season or their selection for the ‘A’ team.

I guess current performance coupled – in some cases - with established quality (at domestic level) would see the following players fill in the blanks: De Smith, R Hinds, Nash, Roach, Wallace.

EDITED: forgot about Nash - had Ganga in instead!! Guess Nash is borderline certain pick (if that isn't too contradictory!)

Solid summary. But no way should Pollard, E Crandon & Sammy be in consideration for test match cricket.

Who is Wallace BTW??

 

[aussie]

Yeah, he bowled a couple of good spells against a poor batting lineup in one Test. Unfortunately for him, he's played nine other Tests and averaged in excess of 45 with the ball in them. Not only that, but he's looked absolutely toothless in all of them and his First Class record is modest. He's actually batted pretty well at Test level but he always looks really vulnerable early and his First Class record suggests his Test batting efforts have been beyond what you could usually expect from him.

It's been a neverending cycle with him - he plays a Test, looks horrible, gets dropped, then comes back into the team for the ODIs, looks really good, gets put back into the Test team, looks horrible, etc etc. It's time to realise that he should be an ODI-only option at this stage of his career.

He certainly has potential as a player but he's a long way off being Test standard at the moment, particularly when you compare him to the improvements James Anderson has made since he came back into the team. I can accept his place in the squad due to the strange balance England have to employ with Flintoff at 6 but he definitely shouldn't have a guaranteed place (or in fact, any starting XI place) in the Test team at the moment.

Word out. Thats why as i've been suggesting, given that Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson, Sidebottom are the only quicks that should be in serious contentio for test match places with the Ashes coming up (unless Jones comes back to everyone's delight along with Hoggard if he performs in CC this season if any injuries arise).

For the next 6 test vs WI, Swann should be in the team because the main-spinner role is wide open. So he & Monty should be battling it out.

 

[FBU]

What bothers me is our bowlers strike rates. 56.2, 58.7, 58.9, 64.8, 68.1 and 83.3.

Ideally we would want something like Steyn 38.2, Ntini 52.2, Morkel 53.8

I think Test bowlers should have a strike rate of under 55.0. All rounders usually have a strike rate in the 60s and I wonder if a team can afford two bowling all rounders.

 

[andruid]

What bothers me is our bowlers strike rates. 56.2, 58.7, 58.9, 64.8, 68.1 and 83.3.

Ideally we would want something like Steyn 38.2, Ntini 52.2, Morkel 53.8

I think Test bowlers should have a strike rate of under 55.0. All rounders usually have a strike rate in the 60s and I wonder if a team can afford two bowling all rounders.

An attack with 5 guys who get wickets every 10 or so overs isn't so bad but the economy rates are the real problem imho

 

[Jigga988]

There was no Dw Bravo in the summary, isn't he supposed to be fit for these... and if he isn't would like to see Devon Smith slot in the middle order in place for Marhsall, people like Da. Bravo and Richards are too inexperienced and not accomplished enough.

 

[Jigga988]

Word out. Thats why as i've been suggesting, given that Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson, Sidebottom are the only quicks that should be in serious contentio for test match places with the Ashes coming up (unless Jones comes back to everyone's delight along with Hoggard if he performs in CC this season if any injuries arise).

For the next 6 test vs WI, Swann should be in the team because the main-spinner role is wide open. So he & Monty should be battling it out.

Suppose it's worth it for the simple fact that they wont lose to the Windies regardless of what team they put out from the squad. Personlly, I would still prefer Swann to get at least the first 2 tests and if he does poorly then Monty could come in. Monty has had enough chances as the lone spinner, time to give Swanny a quick go...

 

[roseboy64]

There was no Dw Bravo in the summary, isn't he supposed to be fit for these... and if he isn't would like to see Devon Smith slot in the middle order in place for Marhsall, people like Da. Bravo and Richards are too inexperienced and not accomplished enough.

He's supposed to be playing club cricket this weekend I think. So will probably be in contention for the second Test at best.

 

[roseboy64]

Solid summary. But no way should Pollard, E Crandon & Sammy be in consideration for test match cricket.

Who is Wallace BTW??

Check the domestic season thread.