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Thread: Courtney Walsh: underrated great, all-time bowler?

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    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Courtney Walsh: underrated great, all-time bowler?

    I have been working on another version of my ratings for test batsmen and bowlers since August. The most comprehensive yet, featuring a lot more criteria.

    One thing that surprised me was that Courtney Walsh, so often forgotten, stands up against the best fast bowlers in all departments, whether that be overall average, away average, average vs. top opposition. And what astounded me was that his peak years were in his last 50 or so tests.

    I think he is underrated by this forum and he would deserve a place in the alltime test bowlers top 20 imho.

    Thoughts?
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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Courtney Walsh, so often forgotten, stands up against the best fast bowlers in all departments,
    He doesnt match the best in wickets per game. He is under 4 (just).

    IMO, very good bowlers can average under 4 wickets a Test but to be considered an alltime great then 4 is the MIN cut off.

    Walsh was a quality bowler but not a legend of the game apart from his longevity.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

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    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    He doesnt match the best in wickets per game. He is under 4 (just).

    IMO, very good bowlers can average under 4 wickets a Test but to be considered an alltime great then 4 is the MIN cut off.

    Walsh was a quality bowler but not a legend of the game apart from his longevity.
    Wasim averages less then 4 while Kaneria averages over 4.

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    Cricket Web Content Updater roseboy64's Avatar
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    Kaneria greater than Wasim? Itstl. That's a problem you get when you just have have an arbitrary criterion. Quite a lot of players will meet it but then there'll be some who don't and just completely ruin that argument. Best to use a wide range of criteria to judge careers IMO.
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    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    He doesnt match the best in wickets per game. He is under 4 (just).

    IMO, very good bowlers can average under 4 wickets a Test but to be considered an alltime great then 4 is the MIN cut off.

    Walsh was a quality bowler but not a legend of the game apart from his longevity.
    Surely the situation with Walsh was different than the likes of Murali or Hadlee, who essentially carried their respective teams most of their careers. Slightly tougher for Walsh to have a high wickets/match tally considering he played pretty much the first half of his career as part of one of the strongest quartets of bowlers in the history of test cricket.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    Wasim averages less then 4.
    Yes I know

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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quality bowler, but not an all-time great
    You know it makes sense.

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    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Would you call Wasim an alltime great?

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    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Quality bowler, but not an all-time great
    I'd agree with that despite my argument above for his lower wickets/tests ratio.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Would you call Wasim an alltime great?
    In the oft used sense of the phrase then he is. He accomplished so much. However, he isnt in the elite level bowlers to have ever played the game and his name would never be close to mentioned in the discussion of best seam bowlers ever.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    I think he is underrated by this forum and he would deserve a place in the alltime test bowlers top 20 imho.
    The thing is that he probably places no higher then 7th (and possibly even lower) on the post war WI list.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Walsh < Marshall, Ambrose, Garner, Holding, Roberts, Bishop, Hall and it's possible that had Daniel and even Clarke had the careers they might've done they'd have been better to boot.

    Nonetheless, of course, Walsh was a brilliant bowler over a long, long time.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Would you call Wasim an alltime great?
    Yes

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    State Captain krkode's Avatar
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    As has been mentioned, I don't think Walsh is as good as many of his peers, but he had admirable qualities in his own right. For one, the sheer length of his career was quite impressive. And he basically carried the West Indies bowling for the last 2-ish years of his career.

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    The West Indies could use a player like him now, that's for sure.
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