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On Mathew Sinclair

Flem274*

123/5
I don't think Sinclair would accept it tbh going by what he's told media.

Just another potentially brilliant middle order player wasted by selectorial descisions. Started with Ken Rutherford and Peter Fulton is the new one so far.
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
Atapattu's career average is 32.8 excluding Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.



Sinclair's around 30 excl Zim and Ban

**** off. Lets take out Atapattu's runs against Zimbabwe cus their current side ****ed. Even though the side he played against most of his career was better then the current NZ team. Smart logic. 8-)
 

chaminda_00

Hall of Fame Member
TBH regardless of any bashing intentions that Zimbabwe side is atleast on par with the current NZ and WI sides imo.

I'm so over people just saying someone smashed that Zimbabwe side and not giving any credit, cus the current side crap.

Worst logic ever.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Tbf, he may be harsh, but he's no wanker unlike others I can think of.

EDIT: After seeing the other thread I'll have to revise. He may be wrong, but he's no wanker generally unlike others I can think of.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
Scoring runs for fun in New Zealand Domestic cricket (averaging over 118 ATM :mellow: ) but when he is in the Test team he either can't buy a run or is shifted around the order or he makes one low score and is out of the team.

I've always held hopes for him to do well as a Test player, but I'm not sure if it is mental or his technique or both.
Below is the best Sinclair related post I have ever seen.

Posted by Sinclairs biggest fan, Prince of the PEWS:

For most of his career, Sinclair has had claim to suggest he is the second best batsman in New Zealand behind Fleming. I think that time has passed watching him since his most recent recall and following his performances for CD, which is indeed a great shame, but for many years he had to cool his heels while batsmen not really fit to shine his boots in Astle, McMillan, Styris, Marshall, Vincent etc got places ahead of him. Yes, I have seen their Test records and yes, I realise said records are indeed superior, but Sinclair has been victim so many things that to finish with a Test average of approximately 35 would probably be an achievement in itself.

When he was first dropped back in 2001, it was fair. Despite his ability and excellent First Class credentials, and despite the excellent start to his career, he was failing. This, however, was probably the last time he was rightfully dumped from the team. Since then, he has always been the man to sit out when the "next big thing" who averages 15 less than Sinclair in First Class cricket comes along, plays a few nice shots and catches the public eye comes along. At best, he's been the one to come in when injuries have hit, do fairly well and then get replaced, much like what happened in this Test - all the while churning out runs in First Class cricket like few New Zealanders have ever dreamed of.

Most of all though, he has been victim to the focus on one day cricket and the small amount of Tests New Zealand have played in recent years. In the last few years, the pattern of the batsmen failing in a Test series then Sinclair being brought in, playing one game and looking better than his predecessors without doing anything brilliant, getting selected for the ODIs, failing in them (due to not being at all suited to them) and being dropped from both forms to start the cycle all over again has repeatedly plagued him. It's cache 22 for him really, though - he wouldn't want to get dumped from the Test side on the back of his ODI performances, but he wouldn't want to suffer from the problem Daren Ganga spoke of recently and he certainly wouldn't want to become the forgotten man a year down the track when New Zealand play their next Test and want to select the next Jamie How or Ross Taylor.

What I find most humourous is your comments about his nervousness. Why do you think he looks nervous when he bats? Is it perhaps because he knows he's playing for his career every time he goes out to bat, and knows from previous experience that the selectors have virtually no patience or perspective with him at all? I've actually only seen him bat once for CD - footage I got from a friend in New Zealand - but I'd suggest that, going by his record, he wouldn't oft look too nervous out there batting for them. He's respected for the quality batsman he is and he has repaid the faith.

First Class Averages
Mathew Sinclair 47.10
Stephen Fleming 43.83
Mark Richardson 42.89
Craig McMillan 39.28
Nathan Astle 37.58
Lou Vincent 36.04
Scott Styris 30.69
Hamish Marshall 27.65

This is indeed a very simplistic way of looking at it (especially in the cases of Styris and Richardson) but it does point out just how good Sinclair is at that level. Surely a man of such awesome ability at First Class level - ability he did indeed show at Test level at times - deserved much, much, much better treatment than he got. This will probably be realised later on when people actually analyse his career properly instead of just over-reacting to a bad Test here and there and backflipping every 25 seconds, but it's something that can and should be seen right now.

It was shown in South Africa that Styris was finished as a Test batsman, for mine - he didn't look out of form, he just looked shocking. The same may happen this series to Sinclair (his First Class form for CD, which has been one brilliant constant in his career up until now, certainly indicates it) but as much as I'm sure Scott Styris won't be judged on that last series, Mathew Sinclair should not be judged on this one, and the criticism he's been getting is ridiculous.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Exactly, he is baiting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that against forum rules?
I guess you don't really know Tharmi that well, but he does most of it tongue firmly in cheek. Isn't a troll really, just has a terrible sense of humour :p
 

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
I guess you don't really know Tharmi that well, but he does most of it tongue firmly in cheek. Isn't a troll really, just has a terrible sense of humour :p
No I don't. But that shouldn't be a problem. When it comes to moderating 'knowing somebody' shouldn't come into it, and they should be warned just like everyone else.

He seems trolly on just the one issue, and his terrible humour shouldn't be an excuse.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Thought that was Vincent.
Happened to Sinclair as well, just before a home Test series against Australia (I forget which year it was exactly, but Hamish Marshall scored a ton in the first Test). The Australian media spun it as "Lee chases scared opener down the order" which was absolutely ridiculous given his comments had nothing to do with Lee and he was far from an opener, scared or otherwise.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I don't think Sinclair would accept it tbh going by what he's told media.
Yeah, if the selectors went to him and said..

"Look, we're stuffed, would you be interested in having an extended run with the team? We'll give you time to settle in again and you'll be treated as a senior member."

.. then I think he'd play. "Ross Taylor is injured so we're going to give you another one-off Test so Smith and Crowe can bag you in the commentary box from the moment you come out to bat to the moment you trudge off, then discard you again" just doesn't have the same appeal though, and I think the selectors will probably opt for Fulton anyway.

I think most of his fans actually more faith in his ability at Test level than he does, which has been part of his downfall IMO. He reads too much into his own (bad) press.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
Sinclair and Vincent's cases are quite sad. Quite a lot of pressure put on them by the media and the majority of the 'limited' cricket followers (the ones that focus purely on one series of cricket without taking into account history or potential). We know that both players are/were class but never fulfilled their potential's and if only they got a bigger run in the team without the chopping and changing they could have been potentially dangerous batsmen. For some reason Sinclair reminds me of a typical Australian type batsman and I think he would have been consistent with a longer run. Vincent was looking pretty good before his run with the team came to an end. I thought his droppings were premature.
 

thierry henry

International Coach
Fulton should never have been dropped at all. He should be in the test team right now. Give him a chance to find some form and find his feet- he has clearly shown, at times, that he has the ability to be a good international batsman.

Sinclair- imo, Sinclair will always struggle technically against good fast bowling. He's a bit of a FTB- not the worst example of one, but he is one to an extent.

I don't think he would've been an outstanding test match batsman, but he might have averaged high 30s over 80-odd tests if given an extended run- which would probably be enough to see him regarded as an "NZ great" tbh

Vincent- ffs he was complete garbage, don't mention him in the same breath as Fulton and Sinclair. Fulton and Sinclair were prolific scorers at domestic level. Vincent wasn't a prolific scorer at any level. He was/is a borderline slogger, yet completely hopeless in ODIs despite this.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Vincent- ffs he was complete garbage, don't mention him in the same breath as Fulton and Sinclair. Fulton and Sinclair were prolific scorers at domestic level. Vincent wasn't a prolific scorer at any level. He was/is a borderline slogger, yet completely hopeless in ODIs despite this.
:laugh: you're good value TH.
 

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