Are Test captains becoming too defensive and too early?

[Precambrian]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

As if they had a choice! If they'd tried stepping outside off-stump, whacking the ball into the on-side, they'd have been pillored for turning the game into a Twenty20 match. If they'd gotten out during same, people would have given them crap for that too. Their only choice was to wait it out and they weren't up to it.

Not that every delivery was a foot outside the off stump. Both batsmen became over cautious and there were some close leaves also. Even half volleys which otherwise would have been comfortably driven along the ground were left alone.

India were defensive, but Australia were ultra defensive. Made watching paint dry better but contributed to test cricket justifying its name.

[Precambrian]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

You surely mean 'no tactic is negative if it contributes to a team's victory'. Because no matter which way you slice it, Dhoni's tactics were extremely defensive but as they were in pursuit of a win, they weren't negative (even if I hated watching them, personally).

Yep.

[The Ken Legends]

[QUOTE=Top_Cat;1747336]As if they had a choice! If they'd tried stepping outside off-stump, whacking the ball into the on-side, they'd have been pillored for turning the game into a Twenty20 match. If they'd gotten out during same, people would have given them crap for that too. Their only choice was to wait it out and they weren't up to it.[/QUOT
I agree with you 100%

[Rant0r]

it was a tactic which won the game, the australian batsmen just weren't able to counter it, just because they had 8-1 doesn't mean there were no gaps, it might have looked ugly and boring, but glenn mcgrath made a career on bowling boring

[Rant0r]

a sweeper however i do consider negative, you couldn't ever consider getting a wicket there, and any batsmen worth a pinch of **** will just keep punching it out there for single after single.

a ring field could also be considered negative, but you need to be a bit creative on certain pitches. it wouldn't be inconcievable to see a batsmen frustrated out by a ring field and hole out to mid off.

short cover, 2 gullies, 2 square legs, short mid wicket, short leg silly mid off can all be variations to slips when the ball isn't moving. which is a lot these days

[tooextracool]

Captains have definetly become more defensive over the years. Many captains have determined that if they stem the run rate they will eventually get wickets particularly against teams like Australia and India which is a questionable strategy and has worked to some extent but it involves great discipline.

I've also noticed that many captains show too much respect to a top order batsman when he is batting with a tail ender. I dont understand the reasoning behind this, for on occasion someone is on 20 and batting with a number 9 and you'll see no slips and the field well spread to offer an easy single which invariably the batter usually takes. This allows players to easily get themselves set. Ponting is particularly guilty of this ploy and hes not the only one.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Rant0r

a sweeper however i do consider negative, you couldn't ever consider getting a wicket there, and any batsmen worth a pinch of **** will just keep punching it out there for single after single.

Not really. To continuously aim to hit the ball through the covers - for single or boundary - is extremely risky and will almost certainly result in you losing your wicket before too long.

And you don't often get catches in the covers or at mid-off in Test cricket either. Most catches are in the slips. That doesn't mean slips are the only fielders that should be placed in Test cricket. You must stop runs to the maximum extent possible as well as looking to take wickets.

[aussie]

Yes, mainly because most are them are tactically inept.

[Burgey]

I'm more concerned about bowling outside leg stump by spinners withthe keeper standing outside leg than I am putting asweeper anywhere, tbh. Not because it doesn't work, but because it's just boring to watch IMO.

And yes, captains have becaome more defensive, but teams are scoring quicker now, boundaries are in with the ropes and outfields are generally like ice rinks.

[The Ken Legends]

Originally Posted by Rant0r

it was a tactic which won the game, the australian batsmen just weren't able to counter it, just because they had 8-1 doesn't mean there were no gaps, it might have looked ugly and boring, but glenn mcgrath made a career on bowling boring

At least Glenn Mcgrath bowled at or just a fraction outside off stump.
He never bowled 2-3 feet outside the stumps,he was too good for that his record speaks for itself. Tell me an indian opening bowler past or present that had a record to equal.

I do have the utmost respect for Kapil Dev.

[Precambrian]

Originally Posted by The Ken Legends

At least Glenn Mcgrath bowled at or just a fraction outside off stump.
He never bowled 2-3 feet outside the stumps,he was too good for that his record speaks for itself. Tell me an indian opening bowler past or present that had a record to equal.

I do have the utmost respect for Kapil Dev.

Mitchell Johnson consistently bowled 2 feet outside off stump in the last tour,

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Precambrian

Mitchell Johnson consistently bowled 2 feet outside off stump in the last tour,

This.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Precambrian

But it fetched India 8 Aussie wickets on a flat pitch for just 180 odd runs, and India won the match.

No tactic is defensive if it contributes to a team's victory.

Just because a team win's doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

[Precambrian]

Originally Posted by Craig

Just because a team win's doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

yeah, can understand where you are coming from

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Burgey

I'm more concerned about bowling outside leg stump by spinners withthe keeper standing outside leg than I am putting asweeper anywhere, tbh. Not because it doesn't work, but because it's just boring to watch IMO.

Yeah, it's nothing cricket. A seamer bowling outside off is one thing; a spinner bowling outside leg quite another.