How bad are the Windies

[Beamer]

Dwayne Bravo is an incredibly talented batsman who should be averaging 40 plus at test level. He almost always gets starts, and then throws it away with an overambitious shot. His batting is the most disappointing aspect of his game at the highest level. He always looks the part whenever he is promoted up the order, but performs very averagely at number 6.

As a bowler he is never going to be great but he is improving all the time. Did you know he only started bowling when he was 18? He has developed very quickly since then and I think he can be a decent if not spectacular 3rd or 4th seamer.

His fielding is up there with the best in the World in any position, he really is an amazing athlete.I think he is going to be an exceptional cricketer, especially if the management team successfully remind him that he is a batting all rounder and therfore should take that side of his game more seriously.

You can see something within the team is missing when he is not there, and we are really going to miss him in New Zealand.

 

[Athlai]

Hopefully he isn't injured as often as Oram or Cairns were during their careers.

 

[Beamer]

Taylor and Edwards have been two of the finest Test bowlers in the last 12 months.

Jerome Taylor is an outstanding young bowler and by far our best prospect. Even though he has struggled away from home, there have been glimpses that have often been cut short by injury. I remember our last test at Lords, he was clearly unfit and bowling well within himself, but there was one spell of reverse swing bowling that had Collingwood and Cook completely bewildered. Collingwood was repeatedly beaten by sharp outswingers, and then padded away an inswinger that was hitting the off stump 3/4 of the way up, though it was inexplicably given not out (I have not been as annoyed about an umpiring decision since it was that bad). When he is fully fit he is an extremely effective young fast bowler.

Edwards is less effective as he still sprays the ball a bit too much. Still, he caused a lot of problems for the Kiwis on our last tour and he could be a big performer on the upcoming tour as well.

 

[roseboy64]

Nope. Just followed it on cricinfo. Did anybody stand out?

Was more because the persons you put who beside played in that series.

 

[Richard]

Dwayne Bravo

Did you know he only started bowling when he was 18?

Yeah, he toured England with West Indies A in 2002 - at the time, though I loosely followed the tour in terms of what the county players were doing, I took little notice of who the WIndian players were or what they were doing.

When Bravo popped-up at international level (debuting both in ODIs [at home] and Tests [away] against England) I took a rather keener interest in him, especially as he seemed to me to be a pretty decent bowler with good control of both line and swing. When I eventually re-read the Wisden 2003 report of the 2002 tour (my general antidote to boredom for the last 7-8 years has been to pick-up a Wisden and open randomly) I was amazed to see how little he'd bowled (IIRR, he took 1 for 18 off 5 overs in 3 or 4 games).

Eventually I found-out he'd only taken-up bowling very late in life. Stuart Broad has followed a similar pattern. With Bravo, at least he's a couple of years older than me. Broad, however, is the same school year and he'd have basically been doing the same things as me both at school and in terms of cricketing development.

 

[analyst]

IMO, some of the younger players to international cricket do not always command the benefits of fortune that a Dwayne Bravo or a Chris Gayle had. They were given innumerous chances to shine, and picked even after they failed in series.

Lets look at this list of players dropped harshly in the last few years, you only have to see how many different players opened with Gayle or have occupied that place to judge whether it was harsh or not.

Wavell Hinds-Good enough for international cricket, clearly more useful than some of the batsmen involved in their structure, very strong minded cricketer, would have been very useful in the post Lara regime.

Darren Ganga- I have always thought he would shine in a struggling West Indian team, he brings with him several leadership skills that do not neccesarily need consistency with the bat but more involvement with players and motivational skills. I think a useful member of the squad if you ask me.

Dwayne Smith- There are plenty of people who rightly will point out his obvious flaws, but this is a gem of a player if he is motivated and encouraged. Unfortunately no one in West Indian cricket seems too perturbed about his failings.

Ryan Hinds- He has harshly been overlooked for a longtime, he captained Barbados fairly well, he has maintained a good streak of form for the West Indies and I don't really understand the reasons for his exclusion. Would definitely solidify the middle order.

Narsingh Denonarine- An obvious talent, elegant left handed batsman, models himself on Shiv, infact imitates quite a lot of his preparation before each shot. He has the look of a quality batsman, is fairly young so perhaps a little too early to feel aggrieved.

(Those were just a few of the batsmen/allrounders who could be involved in West Indian cricket, to just open up the debate)

With regards to bowling, unless there are talent scouts there, I would presume you choose the best there is available and atm they are all playing. It boggles me that a lot of the naysayers blame West Indian bowling for their failures but most of the time, the bowlers do get wickets, its the inability of the batsmen to fight.

 

[tooextracool]

and finally, i have always believed that Powell is a joke bowler, he bowls at a half decent pace doesnt swing it, never pitches it up and has no accuracy.

Powell definetly has far too many days off color, but on his day he definetly can bowl some breath taking deliveries. If you dont think he can swing it, you need to rewatch his performance at the end of the third day of the test match at Sabina Park against Australia, he got Ponting to an beautiful outswinger and then Hussey to an inswinger.

 

[tooextracool]

Personally, Ive said for a long time that the WI bowlers have been no better over the last 7 years than Zimbabwe or Bangladesh and I think even the staunchest of WI supporters know that this is not far from the truth. Lara and Chanderpaul singlehandedly raised them from the mediocrity of being minnows for there is absolutely no doubt in anyones mind about the fact that they have easily deserved to be rate no higher than number 8 in the rankings.

With that being said, an attack of Taylor, Powell and Edwards has something to work with. Whilst only Taylor may end up being test class, the bottom line is that 3 bowlers bowling at 90 odd mph is likely to have their days when they click and cause problems to some of the best batting sides in the world as recently happened at Sabina Park.

 

[Beamer]

Ryan Hinds- He has harshly been overlooked for a longtime, he captained Barbados fairly well, he has maintained a good streak of form for the West Indies and I don't really understand the reasons for his exclusion. Would definitely solidify the middle order.

I completely agree, particularly as he has dominated the Carib Cup for 3 or 4 years now. He is overweight and keeps getting injured whenever he is picked, but he is miles better than Shaun Findlay could ever be that is for sure.

 

[analyst]

Well when there is no team, you have two men fighting the world, the 'team' is bound to fail. The reliance on these two men becomes obvious to the opposition, considering it is every opposition that this happened against, so I wonder if you still think the batting is not weak. It is a myth that because Chanderpaul and Lara were there, it was all okay and the Windies bowling was letting them down, sure they never bowled sides out, but that was not their style considering you had only Corey Collymore selected for some time as their lone bowler giving their side some credibility. The selectors went mad selecting Reon King and some fool called Vasbert Drakes etc. So I don't blame the bowling, I blame the batting entirely and completely excluding Lara and Chanders to a degree. Bowling cant save you matches but batting can save you matches

 

[Uppercut]

sure they never bowled sides out, but that was not their style

Hehe.

"Feel like taking a wicket Jerome?"
"Nah skipper, that ain't ma style."

 

[Rant0r]

Hehe.

"Feel like taking a wicket Jerome?"
"Nah skipper, that ain't ma style."

bahahahaha ^5

 

[Rant0r]

Just to comment on a couple of stuff, Sarwan can and should and hopefully will be that man that can dictate bowlers, and get on top of them, i remember him scoring 6 boundries in an over and generally scores quickly in test cricket, he can play all shots to every type of bowler on both sides of the wicket.

i think Chatergoon is trying to be like Chanderpaul except for the fact that Chanderpaul at least has some shots in his arsenal where as for chatergoon i dont see where the runs will ever come from.

I am still backing Ramdin to come good despite the poor form. The man is a quality keeper and has some shots, in U21 cricket he was quality and besides no one in the current crop of West Indian keepers can challenge him for a place.

I dont really believe Devon Smith is a walking wicket, he has some talent just needs to focus and not lose confidence so easily.

I totally agree with Belag on bowlers, we had such an abundance of bowlers back in the day and they all left about the same era, and we were left with no one to replace them. also the west indian bowlers need to learn a little about temprament and not acting with such a swagger when you are boasting test avereges of forty - Powell being prime example. There arnt even any young prospects to come from the bowling side of things, the only prospect is the hope that Taylor and Edwards can improve to a point where they can knock over attacks cheaply and sustain long periods of time without getting injured. There is some good prospects with the bat but the WI batting line up aint bad at the mo, all the line up needs to do is have a bit more between the ears.

i don't agree, there were plenty of talented bowlers in the mid to late 90's who just didn't convert opportunities or talent into results, and considering they had ambrose and walsh to work with, that is poor, once they were gone, there was no one to cover for them.

I'm sure someone can fill in the gaps for me but blokes like collins, king, cuffy, gibson, thompson, mclean, rose, lawson

 

[analyst]

The most unfortunate thing for West Indians has to be the injury to Ian Bishop, it deprived not only them of a world class bowler but the world of a genuine quick who would have destroyed teams.

 

[Rant0r]

The most unfortunate thing for West Indians has to be the injury to Ian Bishop, it deprived not only them of a world class bowler but the world of a genuine quick who would have destroyed teams.

and did, before and after the major action remodel

 

[roseboy64]

I completely agree, particularly as he has dominated the Carib Cup for 3 or 4 years now. He is overweight and keeps getting injured whenever he is picked, but he is miles better than Shaun Findlay could ever be that is for sure.

True about Hinds. Performs well regionally then get injured or something else happens. Needs to get himself trimmed down if he hopes to have a future in international cricket.

 

[Rant0r]

needs to be less west indian

funny how times have changed

 

[Richard]

i don't agree, there were plenty of talented bowlers in the mid to late 90's who just didn't convert opportunities or talent into results, and considering they had ambrose and walsh to work with, that is poor, once they were gone, there was no one to cover for them.

I'm sure someone can fill in the gaps for me but blokes like collins, king, cuffy, gibson, thompson, mclean, rose, lawson

Hahahaha, Patterson Thompson, only gap he could've filled was the gap of where not to put a cricket ball. Surely the worst bowler to play Test cricket in recent times.

Reon King obviously could've been outstanding but suffered from debilitating injuries; Nixon McLean actually was outstanding. Sadly only at domestic level, and could rarely translate that to Test.

Pedro Collins too is a fine example of wasted talent.

Cameron Cuffy and Ottis Gibson are earlier though and were already getting on when Ambrose and Walsh retired.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Hopefully he isn't injured as often as Oram or Cairns were during their careers.

Not such a unit as either, so that should hopefully mean he isn't.

Think he has the potential to be a batting all-rounder myself. Batted pretty well in the Windies series up here in 2007, but has never quite kicked on to becoming the genuine article. Still only just turned 25 tho, so time is on his side.

 

[Arjun]

The West Indians just haven't been able to come to terms with the retirement of Ambrose and Walsh, their last two great pace bowlers. None of the bowlers to follow come even remotely close to them, and that's weakened the team a lot. When you've got a bowling attack so weak, it puts excess pressure on the batting lineup, and since these batsmen seem to play with a lot of passion (that's my own observation over nine out of ten batsmen to play for WI), it's bound to result in seemingly stupid bttting.