View Poll Results: Duckworth Lewis; good or bad?

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  • D/L FTW! Lets keep it.

    12 85.71%
  • D/L sucks. Lets use something better.

    2 14.29%
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Thread: Duckworth/Lewis - Fair?

  1. #46
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    It is absurd that a team batting 2nd has to score 20 more runs than the team batting first.

    Just doesnt sit well in sport.

    Just thinking about it

    A fairer system maybe to give (in this case) a team batting 1st 24 overs and the team batting 2nd 20 overs.

    The overs would be unbalanced which isnt ideal but it would mean teams chased the same targets and the team batting first wouldnt be penalized for thinking they were getting 50 overs.
    You could use the Duckworth/Lewis tables to work this out, too. Turns out India would get 25.4 overs and England 18.2.

    The problem with that, as Brumby pointed out - what to do when it rains in the second innings. Then you'd have to cut the target using the current method.
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  2. #47
    International Coach biased indian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes View Post
    You could use the Duckworth/Lewis tables to work this out, too. Turns out India would get 25.4 overs and England 18.2.

    The problem with that, as Brumby pointed out - what to do when it rains in the second innings. Then you'd have to cut the target using the current method.
    and for it has to be valid game it needs minimum of 20 overs
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  3. #48
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwo View Post
    Yes... because making sweeping generalisations helps your argument heaps.

    For all you know, all "senior" (again what the hell do you mean by this) mathematicians might not give a flying fruitcake about D/L or cricket.

    But hey, making sweeping generalisations makes you sound like you know what you're talking about.

    D/L is a fair system, but to try and use this as a basis of your argument for it is a load of ****.
    Fairly obviously, I mean all senior mathematicians who have been consulted on the issue. Any fool should realise that.

    Still, making brash attempted condescending statements... often... makes you sound like you know what you're talking about, and big and clever to boot. Keep it up.
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  4. #49
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    Came across a very good article, explaining DL in dummy terms.

    http://www.rediff.com/sports/1999/sep/16guest.htm

    And here is the official "Calculator"

    http://www.duckworth-lewis.com/Calcu...2/Default.aspx


  5. #50
    gwo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Fairly obviously, I mean all senior mathematicians who have been consulted on the issue. Any fool should realise that.

    Still, making brash attempted condescending statements... often... makes you sound like you know what you're talking about, and big and clever to boot. Keep it up.
    Eh.

    Care to tell me what a "Senior Mathematician" is?

    Thankx.

  6. #51
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Err - one qualified to the best levels?

    Yesssssssss?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwo View Post
    Yes... because making sweeping generalisations helps your argument heaps.

    For all you know, all "senior" (again what the hell do you mean by this) mathematicians might not give a flying fruitcake about D/L or cricket.

    But hey, making sweeping generalisations makes you sound like you know what you're talking about.

    D/L is a fair system, but to try and use this as a basis of your argument for it is a load of ****.
    I don't think the people who came up with it did it because someone asked them to or because they thought it would be "cool" to come up with a system that most people won't understand. It's actually kind of their job to come up with these things.

    My guess is, a senior mathematician is someone with a math/statistics degree and uses these skills on a daily basis and not as a hobby or as a supplement to something else. Contrary to popular belief, there is math after geometry and algebra...
    Last edited by krkode; 03-12-2008 at 03:34 AM.

  8. #53
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    D/L works amazingly well.

    I am so tired of commentators (I'm thinking of Botham) wittering about how complicated and incomprehensible it is. It's complicated because it needs to be so in order to be effective. And we needn't worry about the complicated maths involved, others have worried about that for us.

    I imagine that at some stage the formulae may need to be amended as the game evolves (and for all I know this may have happened already) . Skills and attitudes developed through playing T20 have changed the reality of how practicable it is to chase down targets, particularly over relatively short run-chases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    D/L works amazingly well.

    I am so tired of commentators (I'm thinking of Botham) wittering about how complicated and incomprehensible it is. It's complicated because it needs to be so in order to be effective. And we needn't worry about the complicated maths involved, others have worried about that for us.

    I imagine that at some stage the formulae may need to be amended as the game evolves (and for all I know this may have happened already) . Skills and attitudes developed through playing T20 have changed the reality of how practicable it is to chase down targets, particularly over relatively short run-chases.
    Yip, it needs to have a rethink about one of its assumptions : that the average score in an ODI is 225.

  10. #55
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precambrian View Post
    Yip, it needs to have a rethink about one of its assumptions : that the average score in an ODI is 225.
    Depends whose batting - England would be pretty pleased to average 225...

  11. #56
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precambrian View Post
    Yip, it needs to have a rethink about one of its assumptions : that the average score in an ODI is 225.
    This was done five years ago (for international matches)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    Depends whose batting - England would be pretty pleased to average 225...
    Better to base that score on the ground average imho, or better, decided between the Boards prior to the match.

    Not that the difference will be huge, if 250 is set instead of 225, the maximum effect maybe around 4-5 runs, but sometimes they matter.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes View Post
    This was done five years ago (for international matches)
    Yeah but the first innings score have way gone up from 5 years ago right?

  14. #59
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precambrian View Post
    Yeah but the first innings score have way gone up from 5 years ago right?
    True, I suppose (by about 7 runs per innings, comparing 1997-2002 to 2003-now)

    But what they did five years ago was to introduce a number of different tables based on how quickly the teams have scored thus far - thus, in a way, taking into account pitch conditions. Before 2002, they just took the average score for internationals into account.

    Admittedly there may have been some different approaches which should be added to the data. I don't know whether they do this regularly or not.

  15. #60
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