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Indo-Aussie squad 2008

Precambrian

Banned
................ Sehwag is my surprise choice as captain: he has experience as a captain at First Class level and, from all reports, is a very tactically astute cricketer........................
Ah good one, except that I disagree with your choice of captain. Dhoni has proved to be quite good so far, and I think Sehwag is too a laid back character to inspire everyone
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Openers
  • Virender Sehwag
  • Matthew Hayden
  • Simon Katich

Sehwag and Hayden pick themselves - in reality they're the best two Test openers going around at the moment, even given Hayden's poor series in India. Katich over Gambhir was a tough one, but whilst Gambhir is starting to look like a class act in subcontinental conditions, I have more faith in Katich to score runs in all conditions at this point in time. Katich is also more versatile in theory - as a backup batsman it's handy that he's batted all over the place and could slot in anywhere. I think Gambhir could do this as well without any troubles really but Katich has actually done it, at First Class level at least. Sehwag is my surprise choice as captain: he has experience as a captain at First Class level and, from all reports, is a very tactically astute cricketer.

Middle Order Batsmen
  • Ricky Ponting
  • Sachin Tendulkar
  • Michael Hussey
  • VVS Laxman
  • Shane Watson

Ponting, Tendulkar and Hussey pick themselves. Ganguly's retired, so I didn't consider him. I've opted against picking Clarke as I really don't think he's proven much at all in either Test or First Class cricket - my opinions on him have been well-documented lately so I won't carry on too much on that regard. Dravid's only hanging on by a thread in the Indian team let alone a combined one so that leaves Laxman and Watson to round this out - Watson obviously being picked partly due to his bowling ability, as the allrounder.

Wicket Keeper
  • Mahendra Dhoni

I actually think Haddin will have a better Test career than Dhoni (as a batsman anyway) but based on what they've done so far, Dhoni is the very clear choice. I've opted against making him captain though because, whilst he's clearly a good tactician, I don't think he puts the required emphasis on Test cricket - something I find very important in the context of modern day cricket. Anyone who requests to rest from a big Test series after playing a stack of ODIs should not be leading a Test side AFAIC.

Bowlers
  • Brett Lee
  • Stuart Clark
  • Ishant Sharma
  • Amit Mishra
  • Harbhajan Singh
  • Zaheer Khan

This is fairly straight-foward for mine. They really pick themselves when you consider that the alternatives are Johnson, Siddle, Krejza and.. White.

Final Twelve

  1. Virender Sehwag (c)
  2. Matthew Hayden
  3. Ricky Ponting
  4. Sachin Tendulkar
  5. Michael Hussey
  6. VVS Laxman
  7. Mahendra Dhoni (wk)
  8. Brett Lee
  9. Harbhajan Singh
  10. Amit Mishra
  11. Stuart Clark
  12. Ishant Sharma

Make-up of the bowling attack dependent on pitch conditions. I'd probably play Watson ahead of Laxman if I had two spinners playing as well but we had to trim it to twelve, so that's my twelve.

Reserves:

  • Simon Katich
  • Shane Watson
  • Zaheer Khan
Very difficult to disagree with the side and what you say. Just one question though.

Reasons for not finding a place for Mitchell Johnson ?
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Very difficult to disagree with the side and what you say. Just one question though.

Reasons for not finding a place for Mitchell Johnson ?
And yes - very interesting choice of Sehwag as captain. He is good no doubt. I would be tempted to bowl him more often and drop Harbhajan to accommodate another pacer or batsman in some conditions. I think that may be easier to do if he himself wasn't captain.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Very difficult to disagree with the side and what you say. Just one question though.

Reasons for not finding a place for Mitchell Johnson ?
Whilst I don't think he's been poor enough to actually be dropped from the Australian team (he was certainly better on this recent tour than Lee and Clark..), I don't think he's one of the best three quicks Australia has to offer. He was terrible in the West Indies and whilst he definitely looked better in India, his lack of consistency in line coupled with his lack of movement due to his seam position has made him average at best throughout his career. He has the knack of taking important wickets when the batsmen seem untroubled due to his pace and very ocassional seam movement but it's not enough at this point in time, for mine.

More relevantly in comparison to Zaheer who was the last quick I picked, I considered under which circumstances the fourth quick would actually play - with two class spinners, the fourth quick is unlikely to play unless the conditions suit him AND one of the other quicks is injured. Zaheer's certainly a far better bowler than Johnson when there's swing (either conventional or reverse) and although Johnson's probably the better option in conditions that aren't offering much, I'd be more inclined to just play two spinners (or maybe even Watson as a bowler) in those conditions anyway. Zaheer for mine just offers more given the balance and is a classier bowler overall.

Granted, it definitely deserved more explanation than what I gave it. It was a long post though so I wanted to cut it down a bit where I could to make sure people didn't just skim it. :p
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
15 Man Touring Squad
Batsmen (7):
G Gambhir
S Katich
M Hussey
S Tendulkar
R Ponting
V Sehwag
VVS Laxman

All-rounders (2):
S Watson
MS Dhoni+

Bowlers (6):
I Sharma
A Mishra
Harbhajan Singh
S Clark
Z Khan
B Lee

XI to play in Asia:
1. V Sehwag
2. S Katich (c)
3. R Ponting
4. S Tendulkar
5. M Hussey
6. S Watson
7. MS Dhoni+ (vc)
8. Harbhajan Singh
9. Amit Mishra
10. S Clark
11. I Sharma

To play in the Rest of the World:
1. V Sehwag
2. S Katich (c)
3. R Ponting
4. S Tendulkar
5. M Hussey
6. VVS Laxman
7. MS Dhoni+ (vc)
8. B Lee
9. A Mishra
10. S Clark
11. I Sharma
 
Last edited:

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Whilst I don't think he's been poor enough to actually be dropped from the Australian team (he was certainly better on this recent tour than Lee and Clark..), I don't think he's one of the best three quicks Australia has to offer. He was terrible in the West Indies and whilst he definitely looked better in India, his lack of consistency in line coupled with his lack of movement due to his seam position has made him average at best throughout his career. He has the knack of taking important wickets when the batsmen seem untroubled due to his pace and very ocassional seam movement but it's not enough at this point in time, for mine.

More relevantly in comparison to Zaheer who was the last quick I picked, I considered under which circumstances the fourth quick would actually play - with two class spinners, the fourth quick is unlikely to play unless the conditions suit him AND one of the other quicks is injured. Zaheer's certainly a far better bowler than Johnson when there's swing (either conventional or reverse) and although Johnson's probably the better option in conditions that aren't offering much, I'd be more inclined to just play two spinners (or maybe even Watson as a bowler) in those conditions anyway. Zaheer for mine just offers more given the balance and is a classier bowler overall.

Granted, it definitely deserved more explanation than what I gave it. It was a long post though so I wanted to cut it down a bit where I could to make sure people didn't just skim it. :p
I completely agre. I just wanted to know your reasons. Its good to see people going beyond immediate stats.

I am not overly impressed with Johnson. He has speed but I am very disappointed at his lack of movement in the air and the seam position which probably explains the first point.
Cricket seems to have come to a stage where good technique or orthodox classical actions are not considered something to aspire for. Where, at one time, you aspired for the classical and then allowed for the individuality, today we seem scoff at the classical as if somehow that was from a time which was somehow less evolved.

Nothing could be further from the truth but even those who realise it seem to have given up and bowlers with less than ideal actions seem to abound at all levels of the game and it is now all over the international game as well.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Whilst I don't think he's been poor enough to actually be dropped from the Australian team (he was certainly better on this recent tour than Lee and Clark..), I don't think he's one of the best three quicks Australia has to offer. He was terrible in the West Indies and whilst he definitely looked better in India, his lack of consistency in line coupled with his lack of movement due to his seam position has made him average at best throughout his career. He has the knack of taking important wickets when the batsmen seem untroubled due to his pace and very ocassional seam movement but it's not enough at this point in time, for mine.

More relevantly in comparison to Zaheer who was the last quick I picked, I considered under which circumstances the fourth quick would actually play - with two class spinners, the fourth quick is unlikely to play unless the conditions suit him AND one of the other quicks is injured. Zaheer's certainly a far better bowler than Johnson when there's swing (either conventional or reverse) and although Johnson's probably the better option in conditions that aren't offering much, I'd be more inclined to just play two spinners (or maybe even Watson as a bowler) in those conditions anyway. Zaheer for mine just offers more given the balance and is a classier bowler overall.

Granted, it definitely deserved more explanation than what I gave it. It was a long post though so I wanted to cut it down a bit where I could to make sure people didn't just skim it. :p
You didn't say why Sehwag for skipper.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
You didn't say why Sehwag for skipper.
Basically, it was either him or Dhoni. I'm not debating that Dhoni has shown more leadership abilities than Sehwag, but I still wouldn't make him captain. I don't think he's shown the necessary respect for the position - going back to that series in Sri Lanka, obviously he needed a rest but the amount of ODIs he'd just played before deciding that made it a bit farcical. He can value his ODI captaincy above Tests if he wants but his decision, whilst admirable in the sense that he admitted he needed a rest rather than just playing on and having a poor series, has made me less likely to opt for him as captain due to the lack of respect he showed to his Test place. I'd want the leader of my Test team to value the success of the Test team above the growing number of new temptations in the game. I'm not sure if I can trust Dhoni to do that.

Obviously if there no other good candidates I'd give him the captaincy anyway - I'd even give him captaincy ahead of Ponting - but Sehwag has experience at First Class level and from all reports is very good in that role. From the little I've actually been able to see in just the way he conducts himself and the way he's always offering his thoughts at international level, he seems very good. It's hard for me to quantify without actually seeing him leading a team in action but he has some fans in high places as far as captains go (Ian Chappell's not a bad start) and I'm almost positive he'd have been given captaincy ahead of Kumble if his place was more secure at the time. Dhoni and Ponting would be in the team anyway so it's not like their inspirational qualities would not be used in the context of the team: Sehwag merely takes the roles of figurehead leader and, most crucially, on-field tactician.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Basically, it was either him or Dhoni. I'm not debating that Dhoni has shown more leadership abilities than Sehwag, but I still wouldn't make him captain. I don't think he's shown the necessary respect for the position - going back to that series in Sri Lanka, obviously he needed a rest but the amount of ODIs he'd just played before deciding that made it a bit farcical. He can value his ODI captaincy above Tests if he wants but his decision, whilst admirable in the sense that he admitted he needed a rest rather than just playing on and having a poor series, has made me less likely to opt for him as captain due to the lack of respect he showed to his Test place. I'd want the leader of my Test team to value the success of the Test team above the growing number of new temptations in the game. I'm not sure if I can trust Dhoni to do that.

Obviously if there no other good candidates I'd give him the captaincy anyway - I'd even give him captaincy ahead of Ponting - but Sehwag has experience at First Class level and from all reports is very good in that role. From the little I've actually been able to see in just the way he conducts himself and the way he's always offering his thoughts at international level, he seems very good. It's hard for me to quantify without actually seeing him leading a team in action but he has some fans in high places as far as captains go (Ian Chappell's not a bad start) and I'm almost positive he'd have been given captaincy ahead of Kumble if his place was more secure at the time. Dhoni and Ponting would be in the team anyway so it's not like their inspirational qualities would not be used in the context of the team: Sehwag merely takes the roles of figurehead leader and, most crucially, on-field tactician.
I agree Sehwag is a very good captain. He has had occasion to lead India before and has done it with aplomb. In fact, I always thought he would be India's next captain. If he hadn't been dropped from the test side (for no justifiable reason really) then he and not Kumble would have taken up the test captaincy when Dravid stepped down.

Of course, Dhoni has been a good surprise. I did not expect him to be so good. I would unhesitatingly make Sehwag vice captain today.

By the way, I don't know what Sehwag as a captain would do if he had to tell his batsmen, in a tight situation, to put their heads down and defend for dear life !!
 

pskov

International 12th Man
A test match touring party for any conditions anywhere in the world:

Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Hussey
Watson
Dhoni*+
Lee
Harbhajan
Clark
Sharma

Gambhir
Laxman
Haddin
Tait
Mishra

The opening spots are tough to choose two from four excellent choices, but I went for those with the best track record. The middle order is fairly straight forward, two of the greatest batsmen ever followed by someone who is having a truly remarkable start to his career (even if he has leveled off slightly recently). Watson is a must inclusion as he provides excellent balance in the side. Dhoni is a superior keeper to Haddin and offers more with the bat too so that's an easy decision. Also he is a good captain as seen by his record in ODIs and T20s so far, as well as skippering both the tests that India won in this recent series. Lee had a poor series but has been excellent for the two years or so previous and has the experience of leading an attack with the new ball. Clark is a very good bowler who was treated unfairly in the series I thought and Sharma clearly has that x factor.
 

Uppercut

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Openers
Hayden
Sehwag
Katich

Gambhir vs. Katich was the tough call here, but since the other two are aggressive openers, i thought Katich would be the more suitable third option if a situation arises where a dangerous new ball needs to be seen off.

Batsmen
Tendulkar
Ponting
Hussey
Ganguly
Laxman

I don't think there's much to think about here. Dravid is one who i'm starting to think will never return to his best, Clarke isn't looking the most impressive currently.

All-Rounders
Watson
Dhoni (c)

I'd like Watson in the squad, i really do rate him. Dhoni is captain ahead of Ganguly, i think the Australians in the team would prefer that :p.

Bowlers
Mishra
Harbhajan
Lee
Clark
Zaheer
Sharma

No real decision to make here either, maybe Kumble's omission, as i've stated before i firmly believe Mishra>Kumble at the moment under most conditions.

Final XI
Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Hussey
Watson
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Lee
Clark
Sharma

12th man: Mishra, replacing Sharma on spinning tracks.

Nothing too controversial here i hope, i still believe Lee+Clark are the two best seamers in the teams in spite of their performance this series. The team's also come out as a 6-6 split. Feel free to query any selections :)
 

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To play in the Rest of the World:
1. V Sehwag
2. S Katich (c)
3. R Ponting
4. S Tendulkar
5. M Hussey
6. VVS Laxman
7. MS Dhoni+ (vc)
8. B Lee
9. A Mishra
10. S Clark
11. I Sharma
:blink: Mishra over Harbs? I'm the self-appointed Mishylover-in-chief here, and even i couldn't make a good case for that...
 

Precambrian

Banned
Openers

Final XI
Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Hussey
Watson
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Lee
Clark
Sharma

12th man: Mishra, replacing Sharma on spinning tracks.
Mishy replacing Sharma on spinning tracks? Sharma averaged 27 in the current series as against 61 by Lee, and 80odd by Clarke! He is the one who can be expected to get max purchase on dead tracks due to his bounce.

Otherwise OK squad. Might just consider Ponting being replaced with Laxman if it is a spinning track. :happy:
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
:blink: Mishra over Harbs? I'm the self-appointed Mishylover-in-chief here, and even i couldn't make a good case for that...
Harbhajan averages 38 outside of the subcontinent. If you take the West Indies out he averages nearly 50. He hasn't played *that* many games to be fair but I'd definitely back Mishra to be the more successful of the two on non-subcontinental pitches.
 

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Harbhajan averages 38 outside of the subcontinent. If you take the West Indies out he averages nearly 50. He hasn't played *that* many games to be fair but I'd definitely back Mishra to be the more successful of the two on non-subcontinental pitches.
I'm just thinking how difficult it is to leave someone out who's now been leading wicket taker in three consecutive series.
 

Uppercut

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Mishy replacing Sharma on spinning tracks? Sharma averaged 27 in the current series as against 61 by Lee, and 80odd by Clarke! He is the one who can be expected to get max purchase on dead tracks due to his bounce.

Otherwise OK squad. Might just consider Ponting being replaced with Laxman if it is a spinning track. :happy:
Second thoughts, agree regarding Sharma. Lee can sit out on a subcontinent turner.

Think i'd still have Ponting though, unless the other team contains Kumble or Harbs, the only two spinners to give him much trouble.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Second thoughts, agree regarding Sharma. Lee can sit out on a subcontinent turner.

Think i'd still have Ponting though, unless the other team contains Kumble or Harbs, the only two spinners to give him much trouble.
Or Ishant, :ph34r: Fair point, considering his success against Murali both in Lanka and Aus. Mendis though is an unknown qty (Lax didnt impress either).
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Okay . Here is my take.

Openers :

We have five openers in the fray. Sehwag, Gambhir and Vijay for India - Hayden and Katich for Australia

I think Sehwag and Gambhir select themselves on the strength of their performances throughout this year. Vijay is not in this league yet. So I have to chose between Hayden and Katich for the third spot.

Inspite of his poor form for most of this series, Hayden is too classy a player and Katich's revival as opener is too recent and of short duration for me to prefer Katich over Hayden. Not today. Another series with Hayden failing and Katich continuing to perform - then maybe.

So my openers are
1. Sehwag
2, Gambhir
3. Hayden​
Middle Order

For the middle order we have
  • Tendulkar
  • Dravid
  • Laxman
  • Ganguly
  • Ponting
  • Hussey
  • Clarke

I consider Dravid and Clarke as not good enough on form and Tendulkar, Laxman, Ponting and Tandulkar, Laxman, Hussey and Ponting (too good a player for me to worry about what happened in this series - where too he had a moment or two) as automatic selections.

Ganguly, I believe was more driven by his sense of history in this series than great form. I am absolutely convinced he has done himself a favour by retiring now. His fielding too goes against him But I will come back to him if we have a vacancy in the squad. So we have ...

4. Tendulkar
5. Ponting
6. Hussey
7. Laxman​

Wicketkeeper

I dont think the wicket keeping slot is so clearly Dhoni's as is being proclaimed here (at least going by the selections) I consider Haddin a better keeper by a margin. Though Dhoni is by far the better batsman. I am going for Dhoni because I consider him the best captain for the side. I dont think much of Ponting as a captain and though I rate Sehwag, I think Dhoni has done enough for longer time to push his claim ahead. So Dhoni is our wicket keeper and Sehwag the Vice Captain.

8. Dhoni (keeper/captain)​

We have just Watson for a conventional all rounder and if we want to add another (since he wont fit in the regular spinners category) I would take White. Of course, one could argue the case for Sehwag being considered as an allrounder too for surely his case is much stronger than Whites. But we wont go there at this time.

So my selection for all rounder is Watson but I will not pen him in yet till I am finished with the bowling side.

Spinners :-

We have four candidates. Kumble, Harbhajan, Mishra and Krejza. I think Kumble is finished and his injury in the third Test saved him and the Indian selectors from some awkward time before the final Test and surely before the next series as well. Harbhajan and Mishra select themselves - one on his record and the other on the fact that he is the only spinner in the squad who makes the ball go away from the right hander. Krejza did well but is not yet ready for this level.

9. Harbhajan
10. Mishra​

Pacers

Then we come to the more difficult part - the pace bowlers. The candidates are : Lee, Clark, Johnson, Watson, Siddle, Ishant and Zaheer.

Ishant, Zaheer and Lee select themselves irrespective of Lee's bowling in the series. Like Ponting, maybe to a lesser degree, he is too good a player to be left out on this one show.

Siddle is out and so I believe is Johnson, who despite his speed was very inconsistent and seems to be going downhill. I hope I am wrong but I was amazed at his lack of seam positioning.

I think Stuart Clark is too good a bowler and was badly handled in the series. I would take him too and also Watson who bowled better than all Australian pacers in the series. Taking Watson gives me the second all rounder besides Dhoni but I am really taking him as my fourth pacer in the squad.



11. Lee
12. Ishant
13. Zaheer
14. Watson
15. Clark.​

If I have to chose a squad of 16, as I originally planned, I would take another batsman and for me the choice is between Ganguly, Clarke and Katich. On current form the choice should be Katich (he can and has played in the middle order) but Clarke too is a very fine batsman who bowls left arm spin and is an exceptional fielder.

Its a tough one so I will sleep over it.

16. Katich/Clarke​

....continued
 

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