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The best spinning combination since 1950

The best spin-combo since 1950

  • Alf Valentine / Sonny Ramadhin (WI)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anil Kumble / Venkatapathy Raju / Rajesh Chauhan (Ind)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Derek Underwood / Ray Illingworth (Eng)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Saqlain Mushtaq / Mushtaq Ahmed (Pak)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Richie Benaud / Ian Johnson (Aus)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Richie Benaud / Lindsay Kline (Aus)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Subash Gupte/ Vinoo Mankad / Ghulam Ahmed (Ind)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Intikhab Alam / Pervez Sajjad (Pak)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28

Precambrian

Banned
Which of the following is the best spinning combination since 1950?

1. Jim Laker & Tony Lock (England) (1952-59) - 24 matches, 206 wickets @ 17.90, SR-59

2. Alf Valentine & Sonny Ramadhin (WI) (1950-61) - 29 matches, 224 wickets @ 29.7 SR-92

3. Anil Kumble & Harbhajan Singh (Ind) (1998-2008) - 54 matches, 501 wickets @ 30.2 SR-65

4. Chandrasekar/Bedi/Prasanna (Ind) (1967-78)- 24 matches, 266 wickets @ 30.8 SR-74

5. Chandrasekar/Bedi/Venkat (Ind) - (1966-78)- 18 matches, 209 wickets @ 30,SR-79

6. Bedi/Prasanna/Venkat - (1967-74) 13 matches, 145 wickets @ 29.5, SR-78

7. Abdul Qadir & Iqbal Qasim (Pak) - (1977-88) - 23 matches, 184 wickets @ 25.41, SR-69

8. Kumble/Raju/Chauhan (Ind) (1993-98) - 14 matches, 176 wickets @ 24.91, SR-65

9. Derek Underwood & Ray Illingworth (Eng) (1966-73) - 24 matches, 162 wickets @ 24.72, SR-77

10. Shane Warne & Tim May (Aus) (1993-95) - 17 matches, 155 wickets @ 24.66, SR-69

11. Shane Warne & Stuart MacGill (Aus) (1998-2006) - 16 matches, 156 wickets@ 25.65, SR-49

12. Saqlain Mushtaq & Mushtaq Ahmed (Pak) (1995-2001) - 16 matches, 137 wickets @ 30.6, SR-68

13. Richie Benaud & Ian Johnson (Aus) (1954-56) - 17 matches, 94 wickets @ 27,SR- 69

14. Richie Benaud & Lindsay Kline (Aus)(1957-61) - 13 matches, 105 wickets @ 23, SR-70

15. Subhash Gupte/Mankad/Ghulam Ahmed (Ind) (1952-56) - 8 matches, 92 wickets @ 25.5, SR-83

16. Intikhab Alam & Pervez Sajjad (Pak) (1964-73)- 19 matches, 120 wickets @ 27.4, S-74

:wacko:

Please tell me if I have missed any combination.
(Note : Only considered those with more than or very near to 100 wickets between them ; Tempted to include Murali - Jayasurya, ignored as Jayasurya is part-time, ignored Mendis - Murali)

Ty Richard for germinating the idea.
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna IMO.

They're the second-best spin attack ever after the SAfrican wristspin trio of Schwarz, Vogler and Faulkner at the turn of the 20th-century, for mine.

Lock and Laker and Ramadhin and Valentine, on uncovered wickets, were lethal as well. Illingworth and Underwood, before covered wickets (neither were much crack thereafter) were damn good too and oft-overlooked.

Kumble and Harbhajan Singh the best in recent times too for mine.

However, had Mushtaq Ahmed been the bowler he was between 1995 and 1997 for longer, he and Saqlain could have taken this out and probably taken-out the Top Spin Duo crown as well.

Depending on how much longer Murali can keep bowling well for, obviously he and Mendis has huge potential.
 
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zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna IMO.

They're the second-best spin attack ever after the SAfrican wristspin trio of Schwarz, Vogler and Faulkner at the turn of the 20th-century, for mine.
Richard, I can't find your post (from about July) where you described spin bowling from 1974 to 1992 as "mostly hopeless". And the subsequent posts in which you played down the quality of Bedi and Chandra. Can you find them for me please? :ph34r:
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Which of the following is the best spinning combination since 1950?

1. Jim Laker & Tony Lock (England) (1952-59) - 24 matches, 206 wickets @ 17.90, SR-59
Blimey, I hadn't realised how great their stats were. Well my vote goes to them!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Richard, I can't find your post (from about July) where you described spin bowling from 1974 to 1992 as "mostly hopeless". And the subsequent posts in which you played down the quality of Bedi and Chandra. Can you find them for me please? :ph34r:
Bedi and Chandra (and Prasanna)'s careers were both almost over by said date, weren't they? Not entirely sure how effective each were in their lattermost years.

And to what degree did I play them down? Said they weren't as good as some seamers? Said they were more effective at home than away? That's still no impediment on them being the second-best spin attack there's been since the 20th dawned.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Bedi and Chandra (and Prasanna)'s careers were both almost over by said date, weren't they? Not entirely sure how effective each were in their lattermost years.

And to what degree did I play them down? Said they weren't as good as some seamers? Said they were more effective at home than away? That's still no impediment on them being the second-best spin attack there's been since the 20th dawned.
All I'm saying is, find the posts. My investigation skills are limited. I will trust you to find the relevant ones!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The Search Feature is a temperamental blighter and I've little chance of finding them unless I know what I might have said.

And beyond "Bedi"; "Chandra" and "Prasanna", I honestly don't have a clue.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Blimey, I hadn't realised how great their stats were. Well my vote goes to them!
AWTA. The stats are too incredible to ignore. My vote goes for them.

BTW Richard, Kumble-Harby partnership too have a similar avg as Bedi/Chandra/Prasanna. And they have played in an era where most of the pitches have roads. Ain't they got a case?
 

Precambrian

Banned
Richard, I can't find your post (from about July) where you described spin bowling from 1974 to 1992 as "mostly hopeless". And the subsequent posts in which you played down the quality of Bedi and Chandra. Can you find them for me please? :ph34r:
Didn't Pakistan produce spinners like Abdul Qadir, Iqbal Qasim etc during that period?
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Bedi and Chandra (and Prasanna)'s careers were both almost over by said date, weren't they? Not entirely sure how effective each were in their lattermost years.

And to what degree did I play them down? Said they weren't as good as some seamers? Said they were more effective at home than away? That's still no impediment on them being the second-best spin attack there's been since the 20th dawned.
OK I've found the thread I was thinking of...

There was little in the way of widely successful spin between about 1974 and 1992.... If Mendis gets figured-out, barring someone else turning-up out of nowhere, spin will return to the sort of status it occupied in the aforementioned period - mostly useless.

Bedi was only successful at home and in the second-innings; ... and Chandra, well, he was no more than good - certainly not outstanding.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
BTW Richard, Kumble-Harby partnership too have a similar avg as Bedi/Chandra/Prasanna. And they have played in an era where most of the pitches have roads. Ain't they got a case?
It's hard to argue that Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna didn't have more to offer than Kumble-Harbhajan Singh. I've always understood that Kumble and Chandra were fairly similar bowlers, though Chandra had overseas success all career that Kumble could only dream of for most of it. And I doubt anyone would tell you that Prasanna was not superior to Harbhajan Singh - both bowled the Doosra, both were skilled flight bowlers, and both spun the stock Off-Break delivery as much as a fingerspinner can.

Add in a left-armer who also extracted plenty of spin by a fingerspinner's standards, plus being possibly the best flight bowler in history, and I don't see that Kumble-Harbhajan Singh really comes close to Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna. It's not like there was a huge abundance of bunsens in the 1970s either.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
OK I've found the thread I was thinking of...
I think that just shows my feelings that, since wickets became covered all over the planet, fingerspin has not been an option that can have widespread success; and that wristspin is an art that is exceptionally difficult to master and that there've been precious few successful practitioners down the years. In essence, I feel that seam >>>>> spin, in the modern (1970-and-onwards) era. Whereas previously you could argue that they were on an even footing or even that spin led the way.

I don't think I suggested anywhere in that thread that there were other spinners who could do what Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna could not, did I? I've held them in huge regard - amongst spinners - for as long as I can remember.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
It's hard to argue that Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna didn't have more to offer than Kumble-Harbhajan Singh. I've always understood that Kumble and Chandra were fairly similar bowlers, though Chandra had overseas success all career that Kumble could only dream of for most of it. And I doubt anyone would tell you that Prasanna was not superior to Harbhajan Singh - both bowled the Doosra, both were skilled flight bowlers, and both spun the stock Off-Break delivery as much as a fingerspinner can.

Add in a left-armer who also extracted plenty of spin by a fingerspinner's standards, plus being possibly the best flight bowler in history, and I don't see that Kumble-Harbhajan Singh really comes close to Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna. It's not like there was a huge abundance of bunsens in the 1970s either.
I'm so glad I put my last post up before you posted this - the two posts read so beautifully together....
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Do they? I don't think I mentioned Kumble or Harbhajan Singh in either of the quoted posts in your previous post.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
I think that just shows my feelings that, since wickets became covered all over the planet, fingerspin has not been an option that can have widespread success; and that wristspin is an art that is exceptionally difficult to master and that there've been precious few successful practitioners down the years. In essence, I feel that seam >>>>> spin, in the modern (1970-and-onwards) era. Whereas previously you could argue that they were on an even footing or even that spin led the way.

I don't think I suggested anywhere in that thread that there were other spinners who could do what Bedi, Chandra and Prasanna could not, did I? I've held them in huge regard - amongst spinners - for as long as I can remember.
To be fair to you, I think you were arguing for your position then, just as you're arguing for your position now. And fair play to you for that. The great thing is, it's so easy to show up the apparent incongruity between the 2 arguments. I'm sure you could do the same to any 2 arguments that I might deploy, if you could be bothered.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Indeed - for example, I'm sure I once read you speak highly of Oliver Rayner, and I'm sure you also once said a bad word... somewhere... about Sir James Laker.

Aha! This must mean you consider Rayner > Laker!

(I had someone, repeatedly, use that logic on me - asserting that I thought Craig White > Glenn McGrath 8-))
 

Precambrian

Banned
It's hard to argue that Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna didn't have more to offer than Kumble-Harbhajan Singh. I've always understood that Kumble and Chandra were fairly similar bowlers, though Chandra had overseas success all career that Kumble could only dream of for most of it. And I doubt anyone would tell you that Prasanna was not superior to Harbhajan Singh - both bowled the Doosra, both were skilled flight bowlers, and both spun the stock Off-Break delivery as much as a fingerspinner can.

Add in a left-armer who also extracted plenty of spin by a fingerspinner's standards, plus being possibly the best flight bowler in history, and I don't see that Kumble-Harbhajan Singh really comes close to Bedi-Chandra-Prasanna. It's not like there was a huge abundance of bunsens in the 1970s either.
AWTA most points except the comparison between Chandra and Kumble. I've believed that Chandra was able to extract more spin than Kumble, while the latter more bounce due to his height.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I can't believe Chandra did not spin the ball more out of the two - but both were said to have spun it less than your "typical" (read Warne or Grimmett) wristspinner, and also to have been much quicker through the air than most spinners - similar in pace to a fingerspinner like Derek Underwood.
 

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