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Thread: Matty Hayden v SUnil Gavaskar - better test opener ?

  1. #16
    SJS
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    Hayden - because he is a better player of left arm pacers from Baroda who migrate to Mumbai.

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    Banned George.Hinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    I get the feeling you guys aren't taking this seriously....

    My 2c, Gavaskar but not by the distance some would suggest.

    Hayden has agreat record on papaper but where he falls down relative to Gavaskar is his record away from home.

    Gavaskar averaged over 50 outside India......Hayden only averages 42 away from Australia.

    Also quite interesting to note that Hayden doesn't average above 35 in ENgland, NZ and RSA, the places where the ball is most likely to move around a bit.
    Gavaskar never played in SA but averaged over 40 in ENgland And NZl.
    Last edited by George.Hinton; 18-10-2008 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    I get the feeling you guys aren't taking this seriously....

    My 2c, Gavaskar but not by the distance some would suggest.
    are you kidding? gavaskar by so much it isn't funny...gavaskar bears serious comparison to the greatest ever openers test cricket has seen while hayden would be at least a couple of rungs below...

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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Been through this a million times. Hayden is one of the greatest openers of all time and compares with Gavaskar quite easily. The comparison is helped by a few myths - some that seem to inflate Gavaskar's reputation and others that deflate Hayden's. Having said that, looking at it as it stands, Gavaskar is a bit better. If Hayden improves his away record there is no reason why he can't be the better of the two. Actually, Gavaskar's home record isn't too flash either and is held up by his smashing of Sri Lanka - minnows of the time.
    Last edited by Ikki; 18-10-2008 at 10:17 PM.
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    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    are you kidding? gavaskar by so much it isn't funny...gavaskar bears serious comparison to the greatest ever openers test cricket has seen while hayden would be at least a couple of rungs below...
    This is ridiculous. Why would Hayden be a couple rungs below? If I were to bring the same arguments that people put against Hayden for Gavaskar then he wouldn't be near Hobbs and Sutcliffe either.

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    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Hayden is one of the greatest openers of all time and compares with Gavaskar quite easily.
    no he isn't and no he doesn't...

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    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    This is ridiculous. Why would Hayden be a couple rungs below? If I were to bring the same arguments that people put against Hayden for Gavaskar then he wouldn't be near Hobbs and Sutcliffe either.
    having seen the two at their best, i can say hayden is just not in the same league...

  8. #23
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    no he isn't and no he doesn't...
    And explain why. Gavaskar's only real achievement occurs against Pakistan. Averages in the 30s against England. Never faced a strong Aussie attack with both Lillee and Thomson and never faced the touted strong Windies attack either. Smashed Sri Lanka, who were piss-poor weak at the time. And that is his test record in a nutshell.

    Just so we can knock a few pegs off to get to reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    having seen the two at their best, i can say hayden is just not in the same league...
    That's great, I don't see why just because you think that, that it is basically true? Frankly, I thought Lara was in another class to every other batsmen of his time too...but I know enough to understand he wasn't.

    Then to say these two are not comparable...hogwash.

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    SJS
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    Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

    Let the debate begin.

  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

    Let the debate begin.
    You'd expect this from someone that doesn't know any better...but to say Hayden was average - because that's what Dev was as a pacer is ludicrous coming from you.

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    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    So Ikki name us an overseas cricketer that is better then an Australian, ever?
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever...

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi, a true legend of CW

    Quote Originally Posted by Boobidy View Post
    Bradman never had to face quicks like Sharma and Irfan Pathan. He wouldn't of lasted a ball against those 2, not to mention a spinner like Sehwag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Okay. Here is a new one. Kapil Dev versus Dennis Lillee - better Pace bowler ?

    Let the debate begin.
    Dev because Lillee is unproven in the Sub. Cont.

    I watched both Hayden and Gavaskar, and I think Gavaskar easily the better. The pitches in the 70s and 80s in places like Aust, Eng, and NZ were actually hard to bat on, not like the feather beds being produced in Aust these days

    Still Haydon, has made himself into a very good batsman
    You know it makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Been through this a million times. Hayden is one of the greatest openers of all time and compares with Gavaskar quite easily. The comparison is helped by a few myths - some that seem to inflate Gavaskar's reputation and others that deflate Hayden's. Having said that, looking at it as it stands, Gavaskar is a bit better. If Hayden improves his away record there is no reason why he can't be the better of the two. Actually, Gavaskar's home record isn't too flash either and is held up by his smashing of Sri Lanka - minnows of the time.
    OMG, Gavaskar is one of the all time best openers in history of the game!!

    Hayden maybe one of the best Australian openers, however his average is primarily made up of home runs against weak attacks. He's been very ordinary away from home, and he's a bit too old to dramatically change that.

    Should be one of the most one-sided comparison in recent times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Dev because Lillee is unproven in the Sub. Cont.
    You could question any wicket takers record from the home team in the Sub. Cont

    Why does evey post hide behind calling bastmen's records aided by flat wickets, then maybe we people should start adjusting bowlers stats to account for when the conditions favoured them. Murali hasn't been overly effective in Australia, so he isn't that good a bowler

  15. #30
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    So Ikki name us an overseas cricketer that is better then an Australian, ever?
    LOL, what? If this is about being better, I already said I think Gavaskar is better. But to say they are not comparable is tripe. I've already made my point in several threads, even gone as far as putting Hayden in my all-time XI, so I'll try not to rehash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pnottath View Post
    OMG, Gavaskar is one of the all time best openers in history of the game!!
    And Hayden isn't?

    Hayden maybe one of the best Australian openers, however his average is primarily made up of home runs against weak attacks. He's been very ordinary away from home, and he's a bit too old to dramatically change that.
    Actually, it isn't. And if I wanted to play the game of "weak" attacks that goes just as much for Gavaskar as it does to Hayden. Gavaskar has been ordinary at home, even with those tracks.

    Hayden is criminally underrated here. To the point that someone like Richard can say Nasser Hussain is better and SJS can compare Dev with Hayden.

    Gavaskar is an all-time great, but to say he is not comparable is stupid. By the same account he isn't comparable to Hobbs, Sutcliffe or Hutton and is "merely" an Indian great. For the same reasons Hayden is denied, Sunil himself can just as easily be denied compared to the English openers.

    Anyway, I've had my rant and I know the same people will think the same things without even questioning themselves. If Hayden gets his away average to about 47-50, he's done enough to equate Sunil IMO.
    Last edited by Ikki; 19-10-2008 at 01:19 AM.

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