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*Official* England\UK off-season 2008/09 \ build-up to 2009 season thread

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I gave up when Steve Stubbings was anointed a 'proven high-calibre' cricketer.
By county standards, he is. Stubbings has served Derbyshire very well. If you were looking for beacons of true excellence, you'd not have very many in that category.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
How did you work that one out? Imran Tahir took a ****load of wickets but is a 'C1'. Rory Kleinveldt who isn't proven back home in South Africa let alone in England, played all of one game despite signing a two month contract but is also a 'C1'.

Also, Michael Brown was one Hampshire's best batsman all season yet his done nothing for the county or indeed the game other than score more runs than the apparently imperious John Crawley - who funny enough did Sweet FA all year.
Try looking beyond this season. There is absolutely no question that Crawley is and always has been a far, far better batsman than Brown.

Kleinveldt has done well enough to represent SA A hasn't he? It doesn't matter how many games they played this season - everyone who took the field once in a First-Class game is included.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
By county standards, he is. Stubbings has served Derbyshire very well. If you were looking for beacons of true excellence, you'd not have very many in that category.
Aside from being a poor cricketer, his got a crap record statistically and has played at a poor level in the county game for a number of years. The best thing you could say about Steve is that his a "decent pro", anything else is pretty much bollocks in my opinion.
 

Anna

International Vice-Captain
This is a cricket forum, where one discussing cricket ffs, and as far as I can tell this thread fits that criteria, just because you may not agree with Richard you don't have to respond to all of his posts in the same sniping fashion.
I diasgree with the way he imposes his opinion on people.

And also that he doesn't always have the facts ->

He's put Pete Trego in the D-1 catagory when Trigger's scored 849 runs at 42.45, with a SR of 73.76 (the 2nd highest in the country). He also topped the Somerset bowling averages with 28 wickets at 24.78, when Caddick only took 25 at 41.88.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
D-1: Graham Napier

Disagree. Napier is a very promising (read: quick and accurate) bowler and his ability to play a match winning innings, no matter how rare is well documented and important.

B-1: Stuart Meaker

You think Meaker is promising based on what?
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Try looking beyond this season. There is absolutely no question that Crawley is and always has been a far, far better batsman than Brown.

Kleinveldt has done well enough to represent SA A hasn't he? It doesn't matter how many games they played this season - everyone who took the field once in a First-Class game is included.
Any decent cricketer worth their salts shall play for South Africa A before their turn Kolpak. Tells you a lot about South Africa A when the captain is Ahmed Amla and Imraan Khan is opening the innings.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Aside from being a poor cricketer, his got a crap record statistically and has played at a poor level in the county game for a number of years. The best thing you could say about Steve is that his a "decent pro", anything else is pretty much bollocks in my opinion.
OK... in the last 9 seasons, Stubbings has averaged under 30 just twice. That is a pretty decent effort in my book. He's no World-beater, but he's a county cricketer of substance and more than deserves his place in Derbyshire's first-team.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
D-1: Graham Napier

Disagree. Napier is a very promising (read: quick and accurate) bowler and his ability to play a match winning innings, no matter how rare is well documented and important.

B-1: Stuart Meaker

You think Meaker is promising based on what
?
From watching him bowl of course. 8-)
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I diasgree with the way he imposes his opinion on people.

And also that he doesn't always have the facts ->

He's put Pete Trego in the D-1 catagory when Trigger's scored 849 runs at 42.45, with a SR of 73.76 (the 2nd highest in the country). He also topped the Somerset bowling averages with 28 wickets at 24.78, when Caddick only took 25 at 41.88.
I can understand why some people feel this way, but regardless of whether or not I think someone is right, I'ts always better to be very firm with your beliefs/opinions/whatever, if you don't have a full conviction in what you say, then it's not really an opinion.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I diasgree with the way he imposes his opinion on people.
I hardly see how I'm doing that there. The entire post is my opinion and that much is pretty obvious.
And also that he doesn't always have the facts ->

He's put Pete Trego in the D-1 catagory when Trigger's scored 849 runs at 42.45, with a SR of 73.76 (the 2nd highest in the country). He also topped the Somerset bowling averages with 28 wickets at 24.78, when Caddick only took 25 at 41.88.
As said - look deeper than this season's figures. No-one in their right mind would possibly argue that Trego is fit to lace Caddick's boots as a cricketer. And no, that's not "imposing my opinion on people" - it's about as factual as that the Moon orbits the Earth.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
D-1: Graham Napier

Disagree. Napier is a very promising (read: quick and accurate) bowler and his ability to play a match winning innings, no matter how rare is well documented and important.
I've followed Napier's progress for a long time now, and have never thought he was much good.
B-1: Stuart Meaker

You think Meaker is promising based on what?
Well, really, based purely on the "he's been clocked at 95mph" thing. Same as quite a few other people.

If he's no good we'll soon find-out, but right now I'd regard him as promising.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
I hardly see how I'm doing that there. The entire post is my opinion and that much is pretty obvious.

As said - look deeper than this season's figures. No-one in their right mind would possibly argue that Trego is fit to lace Caddick's boots as a cricketer. And no, that's not "imposing my opinion on people" - it's about as factual as that the Moon orbits the Earth.
Caddick is what can only be described as thirty-nine.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
How did you work that one out? Imran Tahir took a ****load of wickets but is a 'C1'. Rory Kleinveldt who isn't proven back home in South Africa let alone in England, played all of one game despite signing a two month contract but is also a 'C1'.

Also, Michael Brown was one Hampshire's best batsman all season yet his done nothing for the county or indeed the game other than score more runs than the apparently imperious John Crawley - who funny enough did Sweet FA all year.

C-1: proven high-calibre overseas \ EU-passport \ Kolpak \ British-passport-of-convenience players
Seems to fit that criteria tbh. As he certainly isn't British or Irish like most of the other options available.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
I hardly see how I'm doing that there. The entire post is my opinion and that much is pretty obvious.

As said - look deeper than this season's figures. No-one in their right mind would possibly argue that Trego is fit to lace Caddick's boots as a cricketer. And no, that's not "imposing my opinion on people" - it's about as factual as that the Moon orbits the Earth.
But Caddick's finished...
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
I've followed Napier's progress for a long time now, and have never thought he was much good.
He is a tank of a quick bowler whose bowling has come on leaps and bounds in the past year. When progress is visible, there is no need for it to be written off as an anomaly.

Well, really, based purely on the "he's been clocked at 95mph" thing. Same as quite a few other people.

If he's no good we'll soon find-out, but right now I'd regard him as promising.
My gut instinct is that it'll be a lot of hype for nothing, surely he'd have played more for Surrey and taken more U19 wickets if he was that quick.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
I've followed Napier's progress for a long time now, and have never thought he was much good.

Well, really, based purely on the "he's been clocked at 95mph" thing. Same as quite a few other people.

If he's no good we'll soon find-out, but right now I'd regard him as promising
.
:laugh:
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Caddick is what can only be described as thirty-nine.
But Caddick's finished...
I don't see any evidence to suggest Caddick is no use any more. He bowled better in 2007 than he had for some time. There was no evidence until fairly recently that he might be on the way out - and even if he were, Somerset still seem to think he's worth yet another year.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
I'd say I take more notice of happenings in county cricket than most people. And I'm not someone who has vested interests in one county.
You do of course but there is a difference from following games via a scorecard and actually watching a game. I find it pretty hard to discuss a cricketer or classify him into a category when I haven't seen him play.
 

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