who should retire?

[ret]

As some of you know, I have given up on big names after India's debacle in the 2007 WC. All the big talk [hu ha India *pepsi*] and little deliverance is frustrating .... Just a few months ago, they talked abt being the 2nd best team in tests [my foot] after beating Australia in Perth but that inconsistency is creeping up in tests as well

the goal-post of consistency has been dragged so low that Laxman's 50s here and there are making him look good .... and which to some would no doubt equate into Laxman being the best

when the new guys crumbled in the final of the Asia cup, the stereotypes came up with comments like how Dravid and Co would have been more effective in ODIs .... clearly, some are missing the signs of the goal-post being dragged lower OR is it that Indians take too long to wake up to reality [no wonder the British ruled the sub-continent for 200 years]

so coming to the point: which one of the 5 below should retire?

Kumble, Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman.

do they still have it in them to match their high standards [or be at 80%] or do we need to bring in youngsters who may not exactly meet the above 5s past high standards but may be meet their current standards and hopefully improve a lot to become a force to reckon with in the future

mathematically speaking [for those who face reading comprehension challenges]

In the past: the five = 100%
Now: the five = 67.34%
New guys = 67% [may be 65% ]
Opportunity = New guys being groomed so that they can get up to 75-80% in future
Threat = the 5 could well come back to 80% after losing 5 series and then again drop their performance levels after doing well in 2 series

Discuss

 

[masterblaster]

Kumble being almost 39 or 40 looks to be the likely candidate. I think he would do India and himself great service by stepping out gracefully and letting one of Piyush Chawla, Amit Mishra or Pragyan Ojha step into the Indian test side. Ganguly is a fighter, Laxman is still fairly consistent and Tendulkar is a legend who will go out on his terms. It looks like Dravid is the next candidate after Kumble.

 

[Sanz]

If a player is not performing, he should be dropped from the team. On the question, Whether or not the players in question should retire, well it is up to them, if they want to continue playing or retire, it should be their personal decision.

 

[ret]

retire = they go out with their heads high or get 'dropped forever', which is like a forced retirement from international cricket

i guess thats understood

 

[stumpski]

Pity you can't vote for more than one (except by selecting 'all of them') - would have gone for Dravid and Ganguly myself. Think the others still have something to offer, but a team shouldn't have too many ex-captains.

 

[ret]

can someone make this a multiple choice poll? .... i overlooked that option

 

[SJS]

Why should anyone retire? Why cant they be selected or dropped on merit ?

Why does a cricketer ever have to retire if he doesn;t want to or have any reasons of his own to. We, in India, have this strange thing about retiring, because we are so scared about dropping a senior. What's worse dropping a person out of form or forcing someone to retire when he wants to play for longer?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Why should anyone retire? Why cant they be selected or dropped on merit ?

Why does a cricketer ever have to retire if he doesn;t want to or have any reasons of his own to. We, in India, have this strange thing about retiring, because we are so scared about dropping a senior. What's worse dropping a person out of form or forcing someone to retire when he wants to play for longer?

It does seem that theres a lot of politics in Indian (and Pakistani to a lesser degree) cricket where the players hold much more power off the field than they really should do. Not to mention how the fans can be very passionate. Which is a good thing most of the time but can sometimes have its drawbacks, and often leads to players carrying on much past their best on the international stage.

 

[Goughy]

In the past: the five = 100%

Out of interest, when would you say the top five were at 100%. Ie when the 5 combined were at their collective peak?

 

[stumpski]

Why should anyone retire? Why cant they be selected or dropped on merit ?

Why does a cricketer ever have to retire if he doesn;t want to or have any reasons of his own to. We, in India, have this strange thing about retiring, because we are so scared about dropping a senior. What's worse dropping a person out of form or forcing someone to retire when he wants to play for longer?

Obviously no-one has to retire if they don't want to - unless they don't get their contract renewed - but most of us have seen a once-great player that's gone on too long. I certainly remember that with Viv Richards in England in 1991. He still had all the swagger, but he never really looked like making a big score. And we also had to endure the long decline of Ian Botham around the same time.

 

[adharcric]

If a player is not performing, he should be dropped from the team. On the question, Whether or not the players in question should retire, well it is up to them, if they want to continue playing or retire, it should be their personal decision.

In an ideal situation, it would be as simple as that - unfortunately, Indian cricket is far from ideal. Given their stature and reputation, these cricketers know that it'll take something egregious to get them dropped on merit. One could argue that such a cricketer should retire if he knows there are options better for Indian cricket on the sidelines that will not get selected on merit unless this cricketer royally ****s it up. That said, these are proud, competitive cricketers and it's a tough ask for any athlete. Everyone's getting the tour of Australia - Kumble, Dravid and Ganguly are the names I'd look at after that.

 

[Mard]

ret i think you should retire because you keep posting thread about india. most of the topics on this forum are about indian cricket.

 

[tooextracool]

There is a considerable difference between who should 'retire' and who should be 'dropped forever'. It has always struck me that players like Ganguly and Tendulkar have been less selfless when it comes to putting the team above themselves and I highly doubt either of them are likely to leave on their own terms any time soon, even if in Tendulkar's case, the case was set for him to retire right after the Australia series, or even now.

All 4 of the above mentioned batsmen are at the moment seriously hampering the chances of many young players who may well do as well a job as they are currently doing. I wouldnt have too many qualms with any of them retiring at the moment, although I would like to see Dravid retire on a higher note after the way hes been playing over the last few years. Similarly, if any of them are dropped forever, I would not have any issues with it as the time for trying something different is now.

When it comes to the issue of retiring, all of them need to ask themselves whether or not India would be better served with or without them and whether or not there are players in India at the moment (such as Sharma and Badrinath) that are capable of being good international cricketers who might well be missing out on the primes of their careers. I do not think that is a question which the likes of Tendulkar and Ganguly will ever be able to ask themselves of.

 

[Salamuddin]

There is a considerable difference between who should 'retire' and who should be 'dropped forever'. It has always struck me that players like Ganguly and Tendulkar have been less selfless when it comes to putting the team above themselves and I highly doubt either of them are likely to leave on their own terms any time soon, even if in Tendulkar's case, the case was set for him to retire right after the Australia series, or even now.

All 4 of the above mentioned batsmen are at the moment seriously hampering the chances of many young players who may well do as well a job as they are currently doing. I wouldnt have too many qualms with any of them retiring at the moment, although I would like to see Dravid retire on a higher note after the way hes been playing over the last few years. Similarly, if any of them are dropped forever, I would not have any issues with it as the time for trying something different is now.

When it comes to the issue of retiring, all of them need to ask themselves whether or not India would be better served with or without them and whether or not there are players in India at the moment (such as Sharma and Badrinath) that are capable of being good international cricketers who might well be missing out on the primes of their careers. I do not think that is a question which the likes of Tendulkar and Ganguly will ever be able to ask themselves of.

I'd agree with a lot of that. I think as a sportsman you need to know when to go and I think Sachin, Saurav, Anil and Rahul are well past their best and should look to retire soon for the benefit of Indian cricket.
I also don't disagree with the claims of selfishness....these guys have their shot,. achieved their fame and money. Time to move on now.

VVS I feel still has a bit left in the tank though.

 

[Sanz]

In an ideal situation, it would be as simple as that - unfortunately, Indian cricket is far from ideal. Given their stature and reputation, these cricketers know that it'll take something egregious to get them dropped on merit. One could argue that such a cricketer should retire if he knows there are options better for Indian cricket on the sidelines that will not get selected on merit unless this cricketer royally ****s it up. That said, these are proud, competitive cricketers and it's a tough ask for any athlete. Everyone's getting the tour of Australia - Kumble, Dravid and Ganguly are the names I'd look at after that.

Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid and Kumble bring huge money to Indian Cricket, they bring the fans to the game in India. They sell the tickets. Why would the Board ask them to retire ?

It just makes no sense whatsoever and its not like any youngster in India is breaking the world records in domestic cricket and good enough to replace them. India have given chance to lot of youngsters in last few years and very few of them have out-performed even someone like Ganguly.

 

[Sanz]

All 4 of the above mentioned batsmen are at the moment seriously hampering the chances of many young players who may well do as well a job as they are currently doing.

Youngsters have to earn their spot in the national team. Please tell me which youngster is ready to replace these guys ?

 

[SJS]

It does seem that theres a lot of politics in Indian (and Pakistani to a lesser degree) cricket where the players hold much more power off the field than they really should do. Not to mention how the fans can be very passionate. Which is a good thing most of the time but can sometimes have its drawbacks, and often leads to players carrying on much past their best on the international stage.

I think how much power the 'seniors' in India hold is highly exaggerated. There have been power centres in the past like there was a time when Gavaskar held a lot of power (as did Bombay) but there were others, some much more senior than him and legends of Indian cricket in their own rights and yet they held no powers. In fact, some of them had to suffer due to the powers of the 'Bombay lobby'. Then for a time, the power base shifted and it was Kapil and the North that held power and so on. Clearly this politicization, which has been going on for long in the sub-continent' is detrimental for the game and needs to be vanquished completely but it was not just because they were seniors that they held that power. It was the politics. In fact, a senior can be be subject to great humiliation also because of this power politics.

Of late, the power is weilded by the BCCI and others who have are major players in the 'money game', viz, the sponsors. Hence the sponsors players, or those on whom a lot of money is riding, come to acquire 'staying power' of a different sort. Thus Sachin holds great power not because he is a senior but because their are millions riding on him as is the case with Dhoni.

You must understand how it works.

There was a time when after Sachin, the maximum money was riding on Ganguly and then Dravid and you saw so much of them on the small screen by way of commercials. Dravid, of course, never faced much trouble in his career till very recently, but Ganguly's troubles always flared up. The sponsors, even when the horse they are backing has become too old to run the race, ned time to get out without losing too much money. Now when Ganguly has been replaced gfrom most ads (as has Dravid) at least the sponsors dont have too much of a problem if they are dropped.

The same, incidentally is true for juniors. Dhoni, Yuvraj and to a slightly lesser extent Harbhajan became popular on the small screen (of course Dhoni has now taken a great lead) and it was not easy to drop them from the side.

To say that a player holds power, simply because he is senior, is just simplifying things which are not simple at all. No one has any love for Kumble or Laxman, for example, inspite of their seniority. They are there because the selectors do feel, inspite of your and my opinion, that they are still value for money and that replacements are not yet good enough.

You may disagree with that but it isn't completely illogical. What is illogical is to assume that a player, somehow, holds some super power over the selectors. Thats rarely the case and invariably, when it does happen, involves the inner power struggles of the board. So a Dalmia may use Ganguly or , in reverse, a Gavaskar may use the clout of Bombay, or a Venkit that of his father-in-law.

 

[Salamuddin]

India have given chance to lot of youngsters in last few years and very few of them have out-performed even someone like Ganguly.

Err...like who ? India dropped Mohammad Kaif, a man who averages 63 in his past 5 tests including back to wall efforts against strong Australian and English bowling attacks and we brought in Ganguly, a player who has never hit a test match hundred against a team with a quality fast bowling attack.

And Saurav has hardly changed that that in the time he has played or India since.....

 

[tooextracool]

Youngsters have to earn their spot in the national team. Please tell me which youngster is ready to replace these guys ?

Well Ive heard favorable reviews about Badrinath and Manoj Tiwary both of whom have stellar FC records. Obviously there are others around like Venugopal Rao, Suresh Raina and even Rohit Sharma who are around and havent been given a shot at the international level. Its an age old saying that you wont know how good some of these players until you try and some of these players havent been given a shot because of the Fab 4.

India also have to dodge the idea of all 4 of them retiring around the same time because that will put even more pressure on the youngsters and wont given them time to develop at the international level.

 

[haroon510]

voted for dravid... but i believe indian team would be still a decent team if all of them retire