Who is the "Douglas Jardine " of Oz captains

[Midwinter]

Was pondering some comments of Ian Chappell the other day when the Jardine comparison came up.

So Douglas was reported as being arrogant (self confident), mercileless (tough competitor),ruthless (nice guys come last), implemented a new style of attack on the batsmen, ( Lillee'n' Thomson anyone) and not least of all was willing take what he had dished out without complaint.
Does this sound like Ian Chappell to anyone ?

Are there any other contenders ?

 

[pasag]

Armstrong, easily. Especially with unleashing a new style attack - Gregory & McDonald.

 

[SJS]

Was pondering some comments of Ian Chappell the other day when the Jardine comparison came up.

So Douglas was reported as being arrogant (self confident), mercileless (tough competitor),ruthless (nice guys come last), implemented a new style of attack on the batsmen, ( Lillee'n' Thomson anyone) and not least of all was willing take what he had dished out without complaint.
Does this sound like Ian Chappell to anyone ?

Are there any other contenders ?

Jardine would have been lauded by the current (and even the last) generation of Australians as a national hero if he were Chappell's or Border's contemporary. His 'negative' traits , as enumerated above are all those the Aussies admire in their own leaders today and the rest of the world proclaims to hate, one suspects because they have none of their own to match.

 

[fredfertang]

Mr Jardine will be turning in his grave at the suggestion that Australians are likened to him

 

[SJS]

Mr Jardine will be turning in his grave at the suggestion that Australians are likened to him

And the Australians will be frothing at the mouth at the suggestion that they secretly admire the qualities they loathed in the man.

 

[Midwinter]

Just because we don't like them doesn't mean we don't admire some of their personal qualities. Geoff Boycott and Arjuna Ranatunga for example, the problem being they weren't on our side

 

[fredfertang]

And the Australians will be frothing at the mouth at the suggestion that they secretly admire the qualities they loathed in the man.

Oh I don’t know about that – as a nation one of the Australia’s great strengths is its egalitarian outlook as exemplified by the reaction to Harold Larwood following his migration – in fact didn’t the evil Notts Express get a spontaneous and genuine standing ovation when he was out for 98 in the last test?

Had Mr Jardine smiled at Australians occasionally and made a gesture such as throwing his Quidnuncs cap to the hill then I suspect he would probably have been accepted quite happily as well – he was certainly respected by the Australian team as was clear from the comments of “Bull” Alexander (“I threw everything at him and hit him several times – he never flinched - he had a ton of guts”)

There was one occasion at the end of the tour when Jardine took the field in his plain England cap and the rest of the team, including all the professionals, wore fancy caps. The impression you get from the literature is that the Australians, understandably in view of what had gone on before, thought he was taking the piss and reacted accordingly although having read just about everything there is about Jardine I wonder if in truth it was intended as an olive branch gesture and its rejection as such just hardened his attitude.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Was pondering some comments of Ian Chappell the other day when the Jardine comparison came up.

So Douglas was reported as being arrogant (self confident), mercileless (tough competitor),ruthless (nice guys come last), implemented a new style of attack on the batsmen, ( Lillee'n' Thomson anyone) and not least of all was willing take what he had dished out without complaint.
Does this sound like Ian Chappell to anyone ?

Are there any other contenders ?

Personally I think there's a difference between simply having two bowlers who were very fast in your team and bowling at the batsman with a majority of your fielders on the leg-side.

As for it being something we'd admire in our captains today, as I've said before I think this is where the confusion comes in between different cultures as to exactly what that approach is. In some places it's seen as 'anything goes' which is clearly not the case. Although it's sometimes retaliated against as if it is.

 

[wpdavid]

Armstrong, easily. Especially with unleashing a new style attack - Gregory & McDonald.

Yup, without Armstrong, Jardine's approach would maybe have been unthinkable even to the English. Chappelli didn't change that much, imo. His was hardly the first side to dish out verbals & short-pitched hits in equal measure, even if they did move things up a notch from what had been the norm. But when following the 1974/5 drubbing, IC's captaincy was the least of the issues afaics.

 

[zaremba]

Patsy Hendren (to DJ on tour of Aus, DJ being barracked by the crowd):
"they don't seem to like you very much do they?"

Jardine: "It's f***ing mutual."

Legend.

 

[Midwinter]

Zaremba

If you swapped Chappell's name for Jardine's in that quote no-one would have noticed !

 

[Burgey]

I understand Jardine's hatred for Aussies began when Armstrong denied him a chance to score a ton against the touring Aussie side in 21 (I think) by calling the match off early or some such thing.

While Jardine's manner alienated him to many here (and bare in mind this is in the depression, where economic times were dreadful and the sight of someone flaunting their wealth and status was like a red rag to a bull), had he had the same manner and bearing, but not authored Bodyline, I doubt the level of animosity would have been anything like what he experienced out here in 32-33.

 

[pasag]

I understand Jardine's hatred for Aussies began when Armstrong denied him a chance to score a ton against the touring Aussie side in 21 (I think) by calling the match off early or some such thing.

Haigh says that's more a myth than anything saying there is no evidence that:

a) Armstrong refused to bowl an extra over
b) Jardine was offended at the time or later

He also continues that in all probability no one out the middle knew his score as that ground didn't have a scoreboard and also if anything the end of the match was being played on Armstrong's generosity anyways as they'd missed a few hours earlier due to rain so Jardine should never have gotten as much as he had anyways.

 

[fredfertang]

Haigh says that's more a myth than anything saying there is no evidence that:

a) Armstrong refused to bowl an extra over
b) Jardine was offended at the time or later

He also continues that in all probability no one out the middle knew his score as that ground didn't have a scoreboard and also if anything the end of the match was being played on Armstrong's generosity anyways as they'd missed a few hours earlier due to rain so Jardine should never have gotten as much as he had anyways.

This particular game between Armstrong's side and Oxford was reduced to two days to give the Australians a rest day before the first test. Notwithstanding that the Australians agreed to start each of the two days early and from what I have read towards the end of the second day Jardine was the recipient of some deliberate full tosses which he simply defended. There is no evidence that anyone asked for an extra over and given what else we know of the man it seems that Jardine would have probably refused it as he refused the full tosses so Haigh's research, as ever, seems to be correct

 

[wpdavid]

Patsy Hendren (to DJ on tour of Aus, DJ being barracked by the crowd):
"they don't seem to like you very much do they?"

Jardine: "It's f***ing mutual."

Legend.

Reminds me of a quote from Alf Ramsey in the days when the England / Scotland rivalry could euphamistically be described as far more intense than it is nowadays. Arriving at Glasgow Airport, one of the stewards greeted him with "Welcome to Scotland Mr Ramsey", to which AR replied "You must be f***ing joking". Happy days.