Hashim Amla boring?

[Uppercut]

The definition of "quota-qualified" is "previously disadvantaged".

Colour of skin isn't actually 100% relevant, it just formed much of the criteria for those who were "disadvantaged".

Indeed. Wasn't Herschelle Gibbs quota-friendly?

 

[Uppercut]

IMO, Amla would make it on merit.

He would indeed i believe. But he wouldn't have at the time he was first picked, and the reason he is above the pack now is his years of test-level experience.

Personally i find quotas racist, discriminative and morally repulsive. But i don't wish to speak of them as it's an overdone topic.

 

[Perm]

Personally i find quotas racist, discriminative and morally repulsive. But i don't wish to speak of them as it's an overdone topic.

Haha, name me one non-South African who doesn't.

Not saying that all South Africans are racists, but obviously some South Africans are in favour.

 

[Perm]

Indeed. Wasn't Herschelle Gibbs quota-friendly?

Yeah, he was. Jacques Kallis also qualifies IIRC, as do Ashwell Prince and Makhaya Ntini from the current XI.

 

[TT Boy]

Yeah, he was. Jacques Kallis also qualifies IIRC, as do Ashwell Prince and Makhaya Ntini from the current XI.

Jacques Kallis is white (been through this before?); if he was ‘black’ everyone would know about it.

 

[Perm]

Jacques Kallis is white (been through this before?); if he was ‘black’ everyone would know about it.

I am almost certain that I have heard or read how Kallis was considered a 'quota' selection for one series for some reason. Goughy? Do you have any idea? Sorry mate, I'm adamant that I've heard it somewhere.

 

[nexxus]

There is utterly no way Kallis is a quota player. I've never heard it mentioned at all in SA. Gibbs qualified, but it was always a pretty tenuous qualification, there's no way he'd be called previously disadvantaged, but it's not about that anymore.

 

[Langeveldt]

There is utterly no way Kallis is a quota player. I've never heard it mentioned at all in SA. Gibbs qualified, but it was always a pretty tenuous qualification, there's no way he'd be called previously disadvantaged, but it's not about that anymore.

Eh? Gibbs is Coloured? Therefore he qualifies as previously disadvantaged.. Kallis is White, therefore he doesn't..

 

[Langeveldt]

Whilst on the subject of quotas, did anyone see that program on Sky about South African cricket? Before the highlights package of the test tonight..

They showed Vince van der Bijl, a man I admire quite a bit, go on about how no South African fan would ever want an all-white team again.. I personally would love to see an all white team go out and beat Australia this summer.. I would also not give two hoots if the team was all black.. I really don't know how he could come up with such comments and claim to be speaking on behalf of all SA fans..

Honestly, in a country where race dictates pretty much everything, down to where you go for a beer at night.. It would be nice to have a pursuit where it no longer mattered

 

[zaremba]

Langeveld, does "previously disadvantaged" have a specific meaning in South Africa? It sounds to me like a horrible euphemism. Mind you given the fairly tortured history etc I can see that some euphemisms may be forgivable.

 

[Langeveldt]

Langeveld, does "previously disadvantaged" have a specific meaning in South Africa? It sounds to me like a horrible euphemism. Mind you given the fairly tortured history etc I can see that some euphemisms may be forgivable.

Basically anyone who was discriminated against during the apartheid regime.. For all intents and purposes anyone who is not white falls into this category.. Even chinese communities have won a claim to be recognised as previously disadvantaged.. This also includes coloured people like Herschelle Gibbs and Charl Langeveldt (which is a seperate racial group from black African, something which confuses a lot of foreigners)

Previously disadvantaged people would, before the 1990's, not have been able to compete in representational teams, as well as wider things such as not being able to marry into white families, enter white suburbs, etc.

 

[zaremba]

Even chinese communities have won a claim to be recognised as previously disadvantaged.

So it's not only a term of art, it's actually a status that people are prepared to litigate to achieve? What's in it for the groups concerned?

This also includes coloured people like Herschelle Gibbs and Charl Langeveldt (which is a seperate racial group from black African, something which confuses a lot of foreigners)

I was aware of the "Cape Coloureds", and that HG is among them. It sounds very odd to English people because "coloured" means, to us, "I'm a racist who doesn't know how to refer appropriately to black people". But I realise that in SA it means something very different and to coloureds I understand it's a status that they cherish.

 

[Langeveldt]

So it's not only a term of art, it's actually a status that people are prepared to litigate to achieve? What's in it for the groups concerned?

You could probably answer that one yourself.. Preferential treatment, whether rightly or wrongly in sporting teams, and also more importantly, in the workforce.. Firms can recieve tax breaks if they employ a certain proportion of their staff from "previously disadvantaged" groups.. I think it's wrong personally, but I'm not sure what else would redress the horrific imbalances in income we have..

I was aware of the "Cape Coloureds", and that HG is among them. It sounds very odd to English people because "coloured" means, to us, "I'm a racist who doesn't know how to refer appropriately to black people". But I realise that in SA it means something very different and to coloureds I understand it's a status that they cherish.

Yeah Spot on.. It's a racial group in South Africa.. Think they are descendants of the Khoi-San people..

 

[zaremba]

You could probably answer that one yourself.. Preferential treatment, whether rightly or wrongly in sporting teams, and also more importantly, in the workforce.. Firms can recieve tax breaks if they employ a certain proportion of their staff from "previously disadvantaged" groups.. I think it's wrong personally, but I'm not sure what else would redress the horrific imbalances in income we have.

It's a viciously difficult situation to try to sort out and I don't pretend to begin to know the answers. It's not surprising that this sort of concept ("previously disadvantaged") has emerged but, as a discrimination lawyer myself, I'm licking my lips at the very idea...

 

[Uppercut]

Ahh I see! Good to have that cleared up, the case of Gibbs always confused me somewhat.

 

[nexxus]

Coloured is pretty much anyone who doesn't fall under Black, White or Indian.

The Coloured grouping would include the Cape Malay people, who were originally from areas like Malaysia, Indonesia, etc., 'mixed breed' people (people whose descendants had white/indian/whatever non-black blood).

White women, who had children with non-White fathers could 'change their status' to Coloured so they'd be able to stay with their children. Unless the child was very fair, at which point they could lie or slide some notes under a desk and have the child classified as White and simply say they didn't know who the father was.

People from North Africa like Egyptians, Saudis, etc of course were termed Indian. Unless they were fair skinned enough to be White. The Chinese case is interesting because they were classified as Coloured, not Indian (who were actually officially termed Asian) and people from Japan were classified as White. Read into that whatever logic you may. I assume this is because most 'native' Chinese people were descended from labourers & most of the Japanese population were only 1/2 generations old & thus were more affluent. That many were able to import goods from Japan probably had something to do with it. Heh, those Apartheid-istas they sure weren't big dumb nasty hypocrites, no sir.

A Korean turning up at Joburg International would've caused some supervisors head to implode after attempting classification. Eskimoes would probably have been termed Asian as well, Lord knows what Native Americans would've been called. Aborigines I guess would be black, and Hispanics Coloured, unless they were White Hispanics

I don't think the descendants of the Khoi would have been classed as Coloured, they would almost certainly have been Black.

 

[Richard]

I guess all that ^ goes to show how utterly, obscenely ridiculous the idea of classifying someone as this or that based on the colour of their skin is.

 

[Richard]

Jacques Kallis is white (been through this before?); if he was ‘black’ everyone would know about it.

And we also wouldn't have idiotic comments like those of Nconde Balfour a few years back...