South Africa's best cricketer since re-admission

[Perm]

The problem for Kallis and Pollock is that as good as their stats look, I don't think they have proven to be matchwinners on too many occasions.

Are you serious? I think Kallis has the most MotM awards in Test history, and Pollock has certainly won South Africa a fair few games.

 

[Briony]

Are you serious? I think Kallis has the most MotM awards in Test history, and Pollock has certainly won South Africa a fair few games.

I'm talking games that count - i.e. against Australia!

 

[Uppercut]

If ODIs counted it'd be Pollock hands down, but looking exclusively at tests i give Jacques the edge.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Batsman=Kallis
Bowler=Donald
Allrounder=Pollock
Captain=Cronje
Fielder=Jonty Rhodes

Overall=Pollock

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm talking games that count - i.e. against Australia!

 

[Jakester1288]

There are so many good cricketers in that list, and I find it so hard to chose!

Jaques Kallis - A great all rounder, the best player in the South African side at the moment.

Allan Donald - What a fast bowler he was. He was Brett Lee's idol, and Brett Lee was once privileged enough to bowl to him and dismiss him.

Shaun Pollock - One of the best most consistent bowling allrounders in Cricket history. He was such a consistent bowler, almost McGrath like. He can put it on the spot almost every time, and his cutters provide great variation. A great player.

Mark Boucher - One of the best keeper batsmen in world test history. Despite only averaging 30, he has an uncanny knack of making big innings when they count.

Gary Kirsten - A batsmen who can bat anywhere in the order. He has opened and batted middle order, and kept his solid average of 45 throughout his career. He will be the South Africans coach next season.

Paul Adams - Doesn't really deserve to be here. He has a good Test record but he is not pure class in my opinion. He is probably the best spinner in South Africa's recent history though, and his average of 32 proves that.

Overall, I think the best player their would be Pollock, if you were going for overall value to the team. He offers a lot with the ball and is a handy lower order batsmen. Kallis is also one who offers much to the team. Batting from 3-6, he is good at stabilizing the innings after early wickets. Donald was the ultimate fast bowler, and just a quick look at his stats proves that. I mean how many people can get 330 test wickets at an average of 22? Only a legend.

I am still undecided.

 

[andruid]

What No Makahya Ntini!!

voted Polly By the way

 

[Perm]

Paul Adams - He is probably the best spinner in South African history though, and his average of 32 proves that.

 

[DaRick]

Kallis, although it's a close call.

 

[Jakester1288]

Who is better?

 

[silentstriker]

Donald

 

[DaRick]

Who is better?

You'd probably have to go far back to find one, but there have been better SA spinners than Paul Adams. Wait...Hugh Tayfield.

I would say that Adams is the best SA spinner since re-admission and also the best left-arm chinaman bowler to play for them. He was far better than the likes of Nicky Boje, anyway.

 

[Prince EWS]

Who is better?

Well firstly it's worth noting that his First Class record is decidedly modest; barely justifying playing a Test at all. He was picked due to lack of other options.

Secondly, his Test average flatters him greatly. He benefited quite a bit from games against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe - he averages over 36 when you remove them from his record. Most importantly though, he was generally only selected when the pitch really suited him or he was in blistering domestic form. His inconsistencies were never shown up at Test level like they otherwise would have been because South Africa wisely left him out when he was unlikely to succeed. If you compare him to Ashley Giles who played whether his bowling was likely to be effective or not, the differences are clear. If Adams was selected as often as Giles was I have little doubt he'd have a worse record with the ball than Gilo himself.

Giles wasn't South African though and you asked for examples. Hugh Tayfield and Reggie Schwarz immediately spring to mind as being clearly better. I'm sure there were others though because Adams was pretty ordinary; I'd be tempted to suggest than even Boje was better than Adams although I don't think I can make a case for it with their respective records. I'd be surprised if Harris doesn't finish his career regarded better than Adams.

 

[Jakester1288]

Donald

But Donald was not a spinner.

You'd probably have to go far back to find one, but there have been better SA spinners than Paul Adams. Wait...Hugh Tayfield.

I would say that Adams is the best SA spinner since re-admission and also the best left-arm chinaman bowler to play for them. He was far better than the likes of Nicky Boje, anyway.

Yes, Adams would have had to been the best spinner for South Africa since there re-admission. Nicky Boje is fairly dire and he has his moments, but is fairly inconsistent. Botha is another spinner who springs to mind when I think of dire. I remember going to an Australia v South Africa match in 2006 and watching Botha bowl. He was getting booed and everything. He was later found out for chucking, and his career has diminished since then.

Yes, stats wise Hugh Tayfield was much better than Adams, but in all honesty I have seen neither of them bowl. Still, a test average of 25 is pretty good, no matter who you are!

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Anyway a post-isolation XI would be an interesting idea. Anyone want to have a crack at it?

1. Kepler Wessels
2. Gary Kirsten
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Jimmy Connors
5. Jonty Rhodes
6. Mark Boucher
7. Lance Klusener
8. Max Bygraves
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Allan Donald
11. Robert Mugabe

 

[Marius]

1. Kepler Wessels
2. Gary Kirsten
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Jimmy Connors
5. Jonty Rhodes
6. Mark Boucher
7. Lance Klusener
8. Max Bygraves
9. Shaun Pollock
10. Allan Donald
11. Robert Mugabe

A real one:

1. Gary Kirsten
2. Graeme Smith
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Darryl Cullinan
5. Hansie Cronje (c)
6. Brian McMillan
7. Mark Boucher
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Dale Steyn
10. Allan Donald
11. Makhaya Ntini

Hansie might be a bit controversial, but despite his sins I think he was the best captain SA has had since isolation.

 

[Marius]

With regards to Paul Adams, I think he was over-rated. Once teams worked out that his only variation was basically telegraphed (he always bowled it quick and flat), he became rather easy to handle. He doesn't even play for the Cobras anymore.

He's definitely not the best spinner SA has ever had, somebody has already mentioned Hugh Tayfield. Adams was better than Boje probably, but I think Claude Henderson can feel hard done by. I always rated him, and he never got a decent run in the side. I'm glad that Paul Harris seems to be getting a decent go, he knows he can afford a poor series or two before his place is in jeopardy.

And other SA spinners who were pretty good, and probably better than Adams:

Athol Rowan
Xenophon Balaskas
Alan Kourie
Denys Hobson

Hell, I think I'd even have Pat Symcox in my side before Adams.

 

[Marius]

SA doesn't seem to produce too many good cricketers these days. Is it because most South Africans prefer rugby and very few play cricket?

I don't know about that. Our Emerging SA side has always performed well in that triangular tournament in Australia which looks like its becoming something of a tradition, and our U 19 side got to the final of the last U19 World Cup. Also look at all the South Africans playing as Kolpaks or overseas pros in the County Championship. I think SA cricket is in relatively good health at the moment.

I can't really say this with any confidence, as I don't know enough about domestic cricket in other nations, but I would guess that only in England, Australia and India is cricket healthier than it is in South Africa.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't know about that. Our Emerging SA side has always performed well in that triangular tournament in Australia which looks like its becoming something of a tradition, and our U 19 side got to the final of the last U19 World Cup. Also look at all the South Africans playing as Kolpaks or overseas pros in the County Championship. I think SA cricket is in relatively good health at the moment.

I can't really say this with any confidence, as I don't know enough about domestic cricket in other nations, but I would guess that only in England, Australia and India is cricket healthier than it is in South Africa.

As I said in the other thread, I wouldn't take Briony's posts on SA too seriously.

This member has made 39 posts since they joined three months and 24 of them have been critical of South Africa in general or particularly Graeme Smith, ranging from the slightly harsh to the ridiculous.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't know about that. Our Emerging SA side has always performed well in that triangular tournament in Australia which looks like its becoming something of a tradition, and our U 19 side got to the final of the last U19 World Cup. Also look at all the South Africans playing as Kolpaks or overseas pros in the County Championship. I think SA cricket is in relatively good health at the moment.

I can't really say this with any confidence, as I don't know enough about domestic cricket in other nations, but I would guess that only in England, Australia and India is cricket healthier than it is in South Africa.

Quite. I imagine one could select a pretty competitive XI from the South African players plying their trade in the county championship as non-overseas players.