England’s (Provisional) Champions Trophy Squad

[Richard]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

Clearly Miller & co haven't read the discussions on CW about Jonathan trott. Unless he's injured or otherwise engaged during the CT.

Oh good God, hadn't even noticed that.

Samit Patel, Michael Carberry, Robert Key and Andrew Strauss (proven ODI failures both) ahead of Trott?

I guess at least we now know that they've decided for some stupid inexplicable reason that he's not being picked unless half the country goes down simualtaneously.

Surprised to see Saj & Liam in the frame.
And Panesar, actually.

I'm not, TBH.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Manee

I disagree. It lets people know where they stand and that is important in List A cricket when you can have several people who are held in similar esteem among peers.

Exactly, it puts people like Trott in the somewhat ****ty position of being told they're behind players who aren't fit to lace their boots.

And, in this day-and-age, probably means they're more likely to start signing for ICLs and that sort of crap. It's a stupid, stupid idea IMO.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Richard

Exactly, it puts people like Trott in the somewhat ****ty position of being told they're behind players who aren't fit to lace their boots.

Perhaps you think that, but the selectors may not.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by Richard

Oh good God, hadn't even noticed that.

Samit Patel, Michael Carberry, Robert Key and Andrew Strauss (proven ODI failures both) ahead of Trott?

I guess at least we now know that they've decided for some stupid inexplicable reason that he's not being picked unless half the country goes down simualtaneously.

The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by open365

Is that a proven fact? I don't know much about speed guns et all, but that seems doubtfull to me.

Not so much 'proven', but they do. Ishant timed 150kph in Australia and hasn't really got near there elsewhere, Noffke and Hilfenhaus were both said to time 140kph but in India, both bowled at 130kph.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.

That's just the way things are really.

Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

[open365]

Originally Posted by Manee

Not so much 'proven', but they do. Ishant timed 150kph in Australia and hasn't really got near there elsewhere, Noffke and Hilfenhaus were both said to time 140kph but in India, both bowled at 130kph.

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

[Manee]

Originally Posted by open365

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

Pretty sure - of course, no one can be totally sure.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by open365

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.

Humidity and heat can, though, obviously, affect energy levels and hence speed of bowling, though.

[steds]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.

I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Richard

Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.

Motivation to bowl fast is a very real effect though.

[Richard]

Yeah, but that's dictated by the mindset of the bowler, not the pitch.

A good bowler can realise that his speed and a very full length takes the speed of the pitch out of the equation.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by Richard

That's just the way things are really.

Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

Even so, we've got:
- Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
- Bell who is currently opening
- Wright who usually opens
- Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
- Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
- KP who's currently at 3 anyway
- Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
- Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
- which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by steds

I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.

That's probably the case. Rightly or wrongly.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by wpdavid

Even so, we've got:
- Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
- Bell who is currently opening
- Wright who usually opens
- Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
- Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
- KP who's currently at 3 anyway
- Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
- Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
- which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

Yeah - as I said, though, it's simply the way it is. There's currently next to no good five\six\seven batsmen in this form of cricket in this country. Not that half those top-three players are any good anyway.

Joyce isn't, never has been and never will be an opener in any sense of the word for any team BTW.