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Thread: Englandís (Provisional) Champions Trophy Squad

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Clearly Miller & co haven't read the discussions on CW about Jonathan trott. Unless he's injured or otherwise engaged during the CT.
    Oh good God, hadn't even noticed that.

    Samit Patel, Michael Carberry, Robert Key and Andrew Strauss (proven ODI failures both) ahead of Trott?

    I guess at least we now know that they've decided for some stupid inexplicable reason that he's not being picked unless half the country goes down simualtaneously.
    Surprised to see Saj & Liam in the frame.
    And Panesar, actually.
    I'm not, TBH.
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  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I disagree. It lets people know where they stand and that is important in List A cricket when you can have several people who are held in similar esteem among peers.
    Exactly, it puts people like Trott in the somewhat ****ty position of being told they're behind players who aren't fit to lace their boots.

    And, in this day-and-age, probably means they're more likely to start signing for ICLs and that sort of crap. It's a stupid, stupid idea IMO.

  3. #18
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Exactly, it puts people like Trott in the somewhat ****ty position of being told they're behind players who aren't fit to lace their boots.
    Perhaps you think that, but the selectors may not.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Oh good God, hadn't even noticed that.

    Samit Patel, Michael Carberry, Robert Key and Andrew Strauss (proven ODI failures both) ahead of Trott?

    I guess at least we now know that they've decided for some stupid inexplicable reason that he's not being picked unless half the country goes down simualtaneously.
    The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.


  5. #20
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    Is that a proven fact? I don't know much about speed guns et all, but that seems doubtfull to me.
    Not so much 'proven', but they do. Ishant timed 150kph in Australia and hasn't really got near there elsewhere, Noffke and Hilfenhaus were both said to time 140kph but in India, both bowled at 130kph.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.
    That's just the way things are really.

    Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

    Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

  7. #22
    International Vice-Captain open365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    Not so much 'proven', but they do. Ishant timed 150kph in Australia and hasn't really got near there elsewhere, Noffke and Hilfenhaus were both said to time 140kph but in India, both bowled at 130kph.
    Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

  8. #23
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?
    Pretty sure - of course, no one can be totally sure.

  9. #24
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by open365 View Post
    Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?
    Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.

    Humidity and heat can, though, obviously, affect energy levels and hence speed of bowling, though.

  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.
    I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.

  11. #26
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.
    Motivation to bowl fast is a very real effect though.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Yeah, but that's dictated by the mindset of the bowler, not the pitch.

    A good bowler can realise that his speed and a very full length takes the speed of the pitch out of the equation.

  13. #28
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    That's just the way things are really.

    Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

    Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

    Even so, we've got:
    - Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
    - Bell who is currently opening
    - Wright who usually opens
    - Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
    - Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

    Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
    - KP who's currently at 3 anyway
    - Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
    - Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
    - which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

    That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds View Post
    I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.
    That's probably the case. Rightly or wrongly.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Even so, we've got:
    - Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
    - Bell who is currently opening
    - Wright who usually opens
    - Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
    - Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

    Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
    - KP who's currently at 3 anyway
    - Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
    - Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
    - which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

    That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.
    Yeah - as I said, though, it's simply the way it is. There's currently next to no good five\six\seven batsmen in this form of cricket in this country. Not that half those top-three players are any good anyway.

    Joyce isn't, never has been and never will be an opener in any sense of the word for any team BTW.

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