England’s (Provisional) Champions Trophy Squad

[Richard]

The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.

That's just the way things are really.

Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

 

[open365]

Not so much 'proven', but they do. Ishant timed 150kph in Australia and hasn't really got near there elsewhere, Noffke and Hilfenhaus were both said to time 140kph but in India, both bowled at 130kph.

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

 

[Manee]

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

Pretty sure - of course, no one can be totally sure.

 

[Richard]

Are you sure that's not to do with the pitches?

Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.

Humidity and heat can, though, obviously, affect energy levels and hence speed of bowling, though.

 

[steds]

The other thing that strikes me about the batsmen listed is that the squad seems top heavy with guys who would bat in the top 3 (most of who in the top 2) with less options for the middle order.

I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.

 

[Manee]

Nah, the speed of the bowler is measured out of the hand - nothing to do with the pitches.

Motivation to bowl fast is a very real effect though.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, but that's dictated by the mindset of the bowler, not the pitch.

A good bowler can realise that his speed and a very full length takes the speed of the pitch out of the equation.

 

[wpdavid]

That's just the way things are really.

Currently, the few decent one-day batsmen in the country (only about half of whom tend to get picked for the national team) are mostly top-order rather than middle-order types.

Sri Lanka have a somewhat similar problem, actually. Hence the reliance on someone like Farveez Maharoof in recent times as a lower-order hitter. At least our versions of him - Swann and Mascarenhas - can actually bowl.

Even so, we've got:
- Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
- Bell who is currently opening
- Wright who usually opens
- Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
- Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
- KP who's currently at 3 anyway
- Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
- Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
- which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

 

[wpdavid]

I imagine that with Collingwood, Shah and a hopefully fully fit Flintoff (and they'll probably keep Bopara at 4), they see the middle order as more or less set. Opening is where we don't really know where we're going.

That's probably the case. Rightly or wrongly.

 

[Richard]

Even so, we've got:
- Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
- Bell who is currently opening
- Wright who usually opens
- Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
- Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
- KP who's currently at 3 anyway
- Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
- Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
- which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

Yeah - as I said, though, it's simply the way it is. There's currently next to no good five\six\seven batsmen in this form of cricket in this country. Not that half those top-three players are any good anyway.

Joyce isn't, never has been and never will be an opener in any sense of the word for any team BTW.

 

[open365]

Even so, we've got:
- Carberry, Cook, Strauss & Key who are openers
- Bell who is currently opening
- Wright who usually opens
- Mustard & Prior who will open if picked
- Joyce who opened last time he played for us (does he open for Middx in List A games?)

Whereas for postions 4-6 we have:
- KP who's currently at 3 anyway
- Bopara, Collingwood & Shah from the current side
- Fred who should probably be at 7 anyway
- which leaves Patel as our only alternative for 2 or 3 places in the middle order

That strikes me as odd, esp with Trott not betting a look-in.

I think a lot of those players you mentioned as openers won't be viewed strictly as openers though, Carberry/Strauss/Key will probably be used where ever they're needed I reckon

 

[FBU]

Players from the last provisional ICC CT squad (Fletcher and Graveney's) not in this one -

Blackwell, Chapple, Clarke, Dalrymple, Giles, Gough, Harmison, Hoggard, GJones, Lewis, Loudon, Loye, Read, Solanki, Trescothick, Yardy.

New faces (Moores and Miller)
Carberry, Key, Shah, Patel, SJones, Panesar, Pattinson, Sidebottom, Tremlett, Ambrose, Mascarenhas, Mustard, Prior, Swann, Tredwell, Wright

 

[Richard]

Yardy has fallen from grace sharply, hasn't he?

I guess an indication that he was elevated hopelessly above his worth.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Tim Ambrose, James Anderson, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Stuart Broad, Michael Carberry, Paul Collingwood, Alastair Cook, Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones, Ed Joyce, Rob Key, Sajid Mahmood, Dimitri Mascarenhas, Phil Mustard, Graham Onions, Monty Panesar, Samit Patel, Darren Pattinson, Kevin Pietersen, Liam Plunkett, Matt Prior, Owais Shah, Ryan Sidebottom, Andrew Strauss, Graeme Swann, James Tredwell, Chris Tremlett, Luke Wright.

Squad will be cut into 15 in the coming weeks.

Thoughts?

Dire.

 

[four_or_six]

Players from the last provisional ICC CT squad (Fletcher and Graveney's) not in this one -

Blackwell, Chapple, Clarke, Dalrymple, Giles, Gough, Harmison, Hoggard, GJones, Lewis, Loudon, Loye, Read, Solanki, Trescothick, Yardy.

New faces (Moores and Miller)
Carberry, Key, Shah, Patel, SJones, Panesar, Pattinson, Sidebottom, Tremlett, Ambrose, Mascarenhas, Mustard, Prior, Swann, Tredwell, Wright

I'd forgotten about Jon Lewis. What happened to him, he didn't play badly when he played iirc.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Darren Pattinson’s ascent from part-time cricketer (full-time roofer) is either remarkable or is an apt illustration of how 'bad' county cricket is.

Anyone seen him bowl?

Yeah, saw him in the 2020 versus Yorkshire. He didn't take any wickets, but was quick (consistently over 85mph & up as high as 88mph) and got good bounce and carry from quite a full length. I would imagine, given his height, he probably normally bowls a shorter length, but changed due to the dictates of the shortest format.

Few years down the line we could see brother versus brother* at international level, unless his kid bro comes over to the side of the angels too.

*actually, did Joyce face his brother when we played Ireland before the last WC?

 

[four_or_six]

Yeah, saw him in the 2020 versus Yorkshire. He didn't take any wickets, but was quick (consistently over 85mph & up as high as 88mph) and got good bounce and carry from quite a full length. I would imagine, given his height, he probably normally bowls a shorter length, but changed due to the dictates of the shortest format.

Few years down the line we could see brother versus brother* at international level, unless his kid bro comes over to the side of the angels too.

*actually, did Joyce face his brother when we played Ireland before the last WC?

I think he was injured. Isn't that just after he did that horrible knee injury fielding in a T20 or something?

 

[Prince EWS]

No Trott again. WTF?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think he was injured. Isn't that just after he did that horrible knee injury fielding in a T20 or something?

I had to look it up, but I was right. From CricketArchive

 

[Prince EWS]

Darren Pattinson’s ascent from part-time cricketer (full-time roofer) is either remarkable or is an apt illustration of how 'bad' county cricket is.

Anyone seen him bowl?

I saw him bowl a few times for Victoria last season. Very tall man who bowls back of a length at decent pace. He's didn't look anywhere near international standard though - I'd describe him as a very poor man's Chris Tremlett.