ICC launch new World Test Championship

marc71178 · 21-05-2003, 06:26 AM

At least this time they've got the top team right!

Looks very suspiciously like the Pickup formula to me...

luckyeddie · 21-05-2003, 06:56 AM

Perhaps Neil can charge royalties...

Bazza · 21-05-2003, 07:08 AM

Either way this is good news. Australia are back on top because all matches count in a period (in this case since 01/08/1999), every team has something to gain or lose in each series, every individual match counts, including dead rubbers and one off fixtures, as well as strength of opposition being taken into account.

These factors needed to be introduced, and now that they have, we get a more accurate picture of where the teams stand. Thumbs up from me.

Langeveldt · 21-05-2003, 12:18 PM

:!( :!( Aww just because SA were winning :!(

No seriously, this new one looks more accurate

Neil Pickup · 24-05-2003, 02:17 PM

Having had time to consider the pros and cons of the new system...

It definitely looks more like my system than the old one, but IMO it (and its ODI cousin) are very, very close in formulae and rationale to the FIFA/Coca-Cola Football World Rankings.

Which we all know are insanely unpredictable.

There's been a change in the Test Championship formulation to take into account all Tests rather than the previous meetings between two nations....

What the hell's the point of the Ten-Year plan then?

With a regular pattern like that, and matches losing X% of their value every year, teams will fluctuate up and down the rankings depending on how recently they played Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Good system, that.

When formulating my system 4/5 months ago, we found five key points (off BBC.co.uk) that a ranking system ought to incorporate:

* There is no weighting for strength of opposition.
My system is heavily based upon opponents' strength
The Kendix/ICC system does this loosely, but most of the top teams fall in the same scoring bracket... Not impressive
* Form plays no part, with the last series between each pair of teams counting for points.
Covered this point above...
* So far, each of the 10 Test teams has yet to play all of the others, so comparisons are difficult.
Will even itself out in time, but is an interrelated flaw of any rolling league
* The results of series, not individual Tests, count for points, so a whitewash is the same as a narrow win.
Sorted in both the Kendix & Pickup systems, one difference being the series bonus the Kendix system awards. To me a 3-1 point split for a three-test series ending 2-1 isn't fair.
* Wins in home conditions count the same as those away from home.
Kendix 0-1 Pickup

luckyeddie · 24-05-2003, 03:29 PM

I know it's probably a waste of time, but our (i.e. Neil's) system deserves to be recognised for what it is - the best weighting system I've ever seen for determining the world rankings.

Methinks the ICC (and the Press Association) should have this pointed out to them frequently and loudly.

Have you considered spreading the word?

Neil Pickup · 24-05-2003, 03:52 PM

We tried several different points of contact and got identical responses from each of them.

None whatsoever.

Havn't tried the Press Association yet... I don't have any contact details or any ideas where to get hold thereof. If you have the details (and if my memory serves me correctly, you do, from the Kirtley "century" thread), then please contact them

marc71178 · 24-05-2003, 05:09 PM

I did try the ICC when you introduced the concept to me, but no-one replied.

Maybe we need it to come from a bone-fide Journalist?

(If that's the case, I think I have the answer)

Neil Pickup · 25-05-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marc71178
Maybe we need it to come from a bona-fide Journalist?

(If that's the case, I think I have the answer)

Enlighten me...

luckyeddie · 25-05-2003, 10:24 AM

Over the Kirtley fiasco, I contacted them via Ananova.

I have had feedback from the press association directly before - their email contact is

information@pa.press.net

marc71178 · 25-05-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Pickup
Enlighten me...

Sorry, but my I won't ask my brother now since you corrected my spelling.

Neil Pickup · 25-05-2003, 02:21 PM

Comparison of my system and the Kendix/ICC system, basing all teams' scores on Australia as 100:

Team - ICC - NP
Australia - 100 - 100
S Africa - 89.1 - 69.2
N Zealand - 79.8 - 69.2
S Lanka - 78.3 - 46.1
England - 75.2 - 59.6
India - 70.5 - 50.9
Pakistan - 70.5 - 48.3
West Indies - 61.2 - 35.4
Zimbabwe - 45.7 - 18.1
Bangladesh - 3.1 - 1.7

Neil Pickup · 25-05-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marc71178
Sorry, but my I won't ask my brother now since you corrected my spelling.

:P

What do you reckon we ought to ask/say to the Press Association, then?

21-05-2003, 06:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,334	ICC launch new World Test Championship At least this time they've got the top team right! Looks very suspiciously like the Pickup formula to me... __________________ marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good! Anyone want to join the Society? Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

21-05-2003, 06:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
luckyeddie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Derby, England Posts: 17,617	Perhaps Neil can charge royalties... __________________ Nigel Clough's Black and White Army, beating Forest away with 10 men

21-05-2003, 07:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bazza International 12th Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hants, England Posts: 1,710	Either way this is good news. Australia are back on top because all matches count in a period (in this case since 01/08/1999), every team has something to gain or lose in each series, every individual match counts, including dead rubbers and one off fixtures, as well as strength of opposition being taken into account. These factors needed to be introduced, and now that they have, we get a more accurate picture of where the teams stand. Thumbs up from me. __________________ My house is burned down but I can see the sky.

24-05-2003, 02:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	Having had time to consider the pros and cons of the new system... It definitely looks more like my system than the old one, but IMO it (and its ODI cousin) are very, very close in formulae and rationale to the FIFA/Coca-Cola Football World Rankings. Which we all know are insanely unpredictable. There's been a change in the Test Championship formulation to take into account all Tests rather than the previous meetings between two nations.... What the hell's the point of the Ten-Year plan then? With a regular pattern like that, and matches losing X% of their value every year, teams will fluctuate up and down the rankings depending on how recently they played Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Good system, that. When formulating my system 4/5 months ago, we found five key points (off BBC.co.uk) that a ranking system ought to incorporate: * There is no weighting for strength of opposition. My system is heavily based upon opponents' strength The Kendix/ICC system does this loosely, but most of the top teams fall in the same scoring bracket... Not impressive * Form plays no part, with the last series between each pair of teams counting for points. Covered this point above... * So far, each of the 10 Test teams has yet to play all of the others, so comparisons are difficult. Will even itself out in time, but is an interrelated flaw of any rolling league * The results of series, not individual Tests, count for points, so a whitewash is the same as a narrow win. Sorted in both the Kendix & Pickup systems, one difference being the series bonus the Kendix system awards. To me a 3-1 point split for a three-test series ending 2-1 isn't fair. * Wins in home conditions count the same as those away from home. Kendix 0-1 Pickup __________________ MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com \| AAAS Chairman CricketWeb Black \| CricketWeb XI Captain ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You? Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog

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24-05-2003, 03:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
luckyeddie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Derby, England Posts: 17,617	I know it's probably a waste of time, but our (i.e. Neil's) system deserves to be recognised for what it is - the best weighting system I've ever seen for determining the world rankings. Methinks the ICC (and the Press Association) should have this pointed out to them frequently and loudly. Have you considered spreading the word?

24-05-2003, 03:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	We tried several different points of contact and got identical responses from each of them. None whatsoever. Havn't tried the Press Association yet... I don't have any contact details or any ideas where to get hold thereof. If you have the details (and if my memory serves me correctly, you do, from the Kirtley "century" thread), then please contact them

24-05-2003, 05:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,334	I did try the ICC when you introduced the concept to me, but no-one replied. Maybe we need it to come from a bone-fide Journalist? (If that's the case, I think I have the answer)

25-05-2003, 10:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
luckyeddie Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Derby, England Posts: 17,617	Over the Kirtley fiasco, I contacted them via Ananova. I have had feedback from the press association directly before - their email contact is information@pa.press.net

25-05-2003, 02:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Neil Pickup Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oxford, England Posts: 26,361	Comparison of my system and the Kendix/ICC system, basing all teams' scores on Australia as 100: Team - ICC - NP Australia - 100 - 100 S Africa - 89.1 - 69.2 N Zealand - 79.8 - 69.2 S Lanka - 78.3 - 46.1 England - 75.2 - 59.6 India - 70.5 - 50.9 Pakistan - 70.5 - 48.3 West Indies - 61.2 - 35.4 Zimbabwe - 45.7 - 18.1 Bangladesh - 3.1 - 1.7

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