Which is the most important dismissal in cricket?

[wpdavid]

Memo to self - not forget to add some sort of smilie after a deliberately exaggerated comment. Copy it 100 times wp.

 

[Richard]

The guys who actually played in that final have spoken many times about how winning the 1987 WC gave them much confidence and self-belief which transferred to their Test form. You won't need to look far to see Steve Waugh, Bobby Simpson, David Boon, AB and others quoted as saying exactly that. Considering the same players who led the WC win led the revival in Aussie fortunes, you can't credibly argue a disconnect between the two.

Ah, confidence and self-belief. None any use if you're not class players. Boon already was, Border had been for years, and Stephen Waugh would become such a thing 6 years later.

It didn't transfer to their Test form, though - that needed bowlers. And for another 2 years, no doing. Alderman, Lawson and Hughes' return to the side (then later McDermott and Reid's return) was the factor there.

 

[funnygirl]

Tendulkar Caught by Akram Bowled Saqlain in chennai

That was indeed very crucial

 

[Burgey]

CJ McDermott c Murray b Walsh 18

Adelaide, 26 January 1993.

West Indies win by one run. First ever test victory by a one run margin.

 

[Perm]

Ah, confidence and self-belief. None any use if you're not class players.

You can't seriously beleive that?

Even players who are middle of the road in terms of class can up their performances with confidence and self-beleif, heck those two things can often lift people up a notch to become 'class players'.

 

[James90]

Ah, confidence and self-belief. None any use if you're not class players.

Hahaha, what? Sigworthy for mine.

 

[bagapath]

Ah, confidence and self-belief. None any use if you're not class players.

you are a funny man, richard.

Remember, the catch I have given as the link in my first post in this thread led to underdogs india beating the mighty west indies in the world cup finals. madan lal, binny and amarnath are not in the same league of marshall, garner, holding and roberts. neither are patil and srikkanth in the same class as greenidge and richards. confidence and self belief of working class cricketers dethroned an all time great team on the biggest stage of all.

 

[_Ed_]

Howzat

Terrible decision, that ball was doing far too much.

Anyway, I'd go for this one at the 'Gabba in 1960...

I Meckiff run out 2

 

[Son Of Coco]

Maybe would've been Stephen Waugh c Browne b K Benjamin 42, Sabina Park, 1995.

As it was, though, the catch was dropped.

 

[Richard]

CJ McDermott c Murray b Walsh 18

Adelaide, 26 January 1993.

West Indies win by one run. First ever test victory by a one run margin.

The way I've heard it, that was rather like Kasprowicz circa '05 in that the wicket should actually have fallen earlier.

 

[Richard]

You can't seriously beleive that?

Even players who are middle of the road in terms of class can up their performances with confidence and self-beleif, heck those two things can often lift people up a notch to become 'class players'.

Nah, class is class. Can't be manufactured.

Obviously class without confidence is little use either, but confidence (as the 1987 WC and countless millions of other examples prove) can be created. Heck, a good sports-psychologist can manufacture it.

If David Boon had been a poor player, like Dirk Wellham or Robbie Kerr for instance, no amount of World Cup-winning confidence could have enabled him to become the player he was 1987/88-1993/94. None.

 

[Richard]

CJ McDermott c Murray b Walsh 18

Adelaide, 26 January 1993.

West Indies win by one run. First ever test victory by a one run margin.

Maybe would've been Stephen Waugh c Browne b K Benjamin 42, Sabina Park, 1995.

As it was, though, the catch was dropped.

Actually, thinking about this, I really, really wish these had indeed been (respectively) non-dismissal and dismissal.

What would've happened if Australia had won in 1992/93 and West Indies in 1995? Very strong case could be made in both instances for "the better side winning" (both Australia in '92/93 and WI in '95 were denied a victory by rain). Imagine if it'd been 3-1 to the home team in both instances.

How much less dramatic would West Indies' dethroning have been? It wouldn't have been until 1996/97, by which time it would've been an open secret anyway, that Australia would've provided the comprehensive beating.

 

[bagapath]

Nah, class is class. Can't be manufactured.

Obviously class without confidence is little use either, but confidence (as the 1987 WC and countless millions of other examples prove) can be created. Heck, a good sports-psychologist can manufacture it.

If David Boon had been a poor player, like Dirk Wellham or Robbie Kerr for instance, no amount of World Cup-winning confidence could have enabled him to become the player he was 1987/88-1993/94. None.

who told you david boon was the boonie that we know from day one? he could have very easily been the next dirk welham! not just him even bruce reid and craig mcdermott would have gone the dave gilbert simon davis way quite easily.

right kind of success at the right time is a very important confidence booster without which you cant reach the next level from wherever you are. i am a filmmaker and i know this from experience.

craig mcdermott and david boon certainly gained in confidence from the world cup win in 1987. i was following their careers from 1984 and they were significantly different players, for the better, after lifting the reliance cup in 1987. no amount of head shaking from you can deny the importance of confidence and self-belief in the success of sportsmen.

 

[stumpski]

Somewhat surprised nobody's mentioned this.



Helped to give Australia a psychological advantage over England that lasted, oh, about 12 years.

 

[Richard]

who told you david boon was the boonie that we know from day one? he could have very easily been the next dirk welham! not just him even bruce reid and craig mcdermott would have gone the dave gilbert simon davis way quite easily.

right kind of success at the right time is a very important confidence booster without which you cant reach the next level from wherever you are. i am a filmmaker and i know this from experience.

craig mcdermott and david boon certainly gained in confidence from the world cup win in 1987. i was following their careers from 1984 and they were significantly different players, for the better, after lifting the reliance cup in 1987. no amount of head shaking from you can deny the importance of confidence and self-belief in the success of sportsmen.

Eh? Where did I deny it? I simply said that it's not as important as class. Boon was easily better than the likes of Wellham, and McDermott, Reid and Hughes were easily better than the likes of Gilbert, Davis and O'Donnell. Let's remind ourselves that O'Donnell himself was an incredibly important part in the 1987/88 victory, but did it turn him into a good Test bowler? No, because he was useless in that format, he didn't have the skill.

I'm well aware Boon started his career poorly, but he'd already turned the corner as a Test player before the 1987/88 Cup. Quite a while before in fact.

Let's also remind ourselves that it wasn't until 1990/91 that McDermott became the truly excellent bowler he was for the first half of the 1990s. Long after the WC triumph.

While the likes of Boon, McDermott and others might not have been as good as they were had Gatting executed that reverse-sweep better, I cannot believe players as good as they would not have come through eventually. Class is difficult to keep down forever.

 

[Richard]

Somewhat surprised nobody's mentioned this.



Helped to give Australia a psychological advantage over England that lasted, oh, about 12 years.

TBH, I think it was probably Terry Alderman in 1989 that gave said advantage.

It's easy to forget, but in 1993 and 1994/95 England improved their play against Warne markedly as the series' wore on.

 

[Top_Cat]

TBH, I think it was probably Terry Alderman in 1989 that gave said advantage.

It's easy to forget, but in 1993 and 1994/95 England improved their play against Warne markedly as the series' wore on.

Yeah by just trying to keep him out plus, the last two Tests in 94/95 were in Adelaide and Perth - hardly spinning paradises, especially in those days. Plus, it's a lot easier when you're already either well behind or have lost the series. It's when the series is alive, that's when it counts and in 'live' Tests, they were pretty circumspect in their play of Warne to say the least.

As for the WI being denied by rain in 1995, I gather you didn't watch the match? Because it was on a dicey deck, the WI were chasing about 250 (the Aussies only declared because of the rain otherwise, with Steve Waugh at the crease and in the form of his life, would likely have set 300+) which was always going to be beyond them after the Aussie batting effort in their second dig and Lara was out; the rain saved them in that match.

 

[Burgey]

Somewhat surprised nobody's mentioned this.



Helped to give Australia a psychological advantage over England that lasted, oh, about 12 years.

Certainly the most important dismissal for Warney's bank account.

The drift on that ball was amazing, wasn't it? Curled in like a slow, reverse-swinging ball, then turned big after pitching.

It's like boys-own stuff - you'd write a book about playing cricket for your country, and you'd either write you hit your first ball faced in a test for 6, or you'd bowl someone out with the first ball you sent down.

 

[wpdavid]

TBH, I think it was probably Terry Alderman in 1989 that gave said advantage.

It's easy to forget, but in 1993 and 1994/95 England improved their play against Warne markedly as the series' wore on.

Yeah, but it's easily forgotten that England were on top of that game until Warne produced that delivery. Given Aus' own bowling difficulties in that series, it's not inconceivable that things could have turned out very diffrently. But perhaps not very likely given Aus' obvious superiority.

Odd that Gatting was the victim of both the key dismissals that we've discussed in terms of England vs Aus.

 

[biased indian]

Did any body mentioned

Gatting getting out reverse sweeping in the 87 world cup final