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Thread: who should be kicked out of England ODI team?

  1. #1
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    who should be kicked out of England ODI team?

    ok i have had enough of Owais Shah, Ravi Bopara, Ian Bell.

    I think these three have had enough time to prove themselves, and they haven't been really good. From next series other players should be given chances.

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    U19 Captain sanga1337's Avatar
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    Luke wright and Graeme Swann

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    adam hollioake. sharjah was a fluke.

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    ^ actually no, i think in that 1997 tournament england deserved to win. That was one of the best ODI tournaments i had seen.


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    Hall of Fame Member _Ed_'s Avatar
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    I thought Shah was brilliant in the first ODI, surely he deserves a few more chances after that.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Shah as probably one of the worst records for a specialist bat that has played that many games in the history of ODIs.

    Bopara has a shocking record and looks out of his depth at the crease. However, he has a 200+ in List A this season so he deserves to be there at the moment.

    Bell shouldnt be there. It is far too easy to set a field to him and have him hit straight to fielders. Its not about strike rate (Ie Bevan had a low strike rate) but the ability to improvise and score runs when a team is bowling well to a field. Bell doesnt have this.

    Wright is there on what they hope he can do rather than deserving to be there. He is a fingers crossed selection. Cant see him ever being consistent but there will be occasional good innings along the way. I think a place could be found for a player like him (hard hitting and ok quick) but he isnt one of the first names on the list.

    Also mentioned

    Swann. Im happy with him. Has a decent ODI record and a good domestic record. Also add experience, variation and depth in batting.

    However, the issue is always, are there other guys that are better? Id like Shah and Bell out of the team but Id need a long think before doing that as the replacements have to be an upgrade rather than change for the sake of change.
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    Wright
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    IMO.
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Wright
    Cook
    KP
    Bell
    Collingwood
    Ambrose
    Mascarenhas
    Swann
    Broad
    Sidebottom
    Anderson

    IMO.
    Bell is significantly better than Cook IMO.

    I think this reaction is a bit OTT anyway. Only a game ago people were saying how much better the team looked as a unit. The second ODI was a setback but it doesn't mean mass changes are needed.

    EDIT: Ahh you've included Bell at 4. Fair enough I suppose. My second point still stands though.
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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Bell is significantly better than Cook IMO.

    I think this reaction is a bit OTT anyway. Only a game ago people were saying how much better the team looked as a unit. The second ODI was a setback but it doesn't mean mass changes are needed.

    EDIT: Ahh you've included Bell at 4. Fair enough I suppose. My second point still stands though.
    I think you will find Ive been quite consistent with my opinion of Bell as an ODI player over the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Shah as probably one of the worst records for a specialist bat that has played that many games in the history of ODIs.

    .
    a bit surprising given he said something like he wants to a bevan type player for england hmm

  11. #11
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    I think you will find Ive been quite consistent with my opinion of Bell as an ODI player over the years.
    Indeed. Shah as well. As I've said before though, picking a team from scratch is different to working with an incumbent team. I'd have Trott ahead of Shah and Bopara for example (assuming he's done well in List A cricket this season; I haven't followed it very closely this year) but Shah has done reasonably well since his recall even given all his past failures and Bopara hasn't been given an extended run (unless you count those games he batted way down the order in) so it'd be harsh to drop them.

    People often jump at a loss like this as a perfect opportunity to plug the team they think should have been there from the start, but that team will always be a bit different to the team that should be there now if you're following a consistent selection process. Bell actually has the second highest ODI batting average in the team at present and his strike rate has been on the improve over the last year. You may not have much faith in him as an ODI player but that's something that should have been considered before he was selected originally - he hasn't done poorly enough to be dropped from the team, especially in the context of his peers.

    You could probably make an argument for dropping Shah - he's been better since his recall, but still not really ODI standard. It'd be a funny time to drop him after what he did two games ago but you could certainly make a case for it.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 22-06-2008 at 02:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mard View Post
    ^ actually no, i think in that 1997 tournament england deserved to win. That was one of the best ODI tournaments i had seen.

    That was the worst thing that ever happened to England in ODI cricket. It was the first time they started selecting bits and pieces county all-rounders and supposedly specialist one day domestic cricketers instead of players of proven class. Although it succeeded in that tournament it's been down hill ever since.

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    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I think this reaction is a bit OTT anyway. Only a game ago people were saying how much better the team looked as a unit. The second ODI was a setback but it doesn't mean mass changes are needed..
    Word, wild thread & reaction especially given these are the best possible ODI players available for ENG ATM.

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    Haha, after the 1st ODI this team was being heralded as very good and in need of respect.

    What happened?

  15. #15
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Shah as probably one of the worst records for a specialist bat that has played that many games in the history of ODIs.
    But Goughy sir, thats just basically looking at plain stats. Following Shah's career one would see over the past year at least he has found a role @ 6 that he is doing a decent job in after years of being juggled around the side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Bopara has a shocking record and looks out of his depth at the crease. However, he has a 200+ in List A this season so he deserves to be there at the moment.
    Well we all have our opinions but i have never got that impression about Bopara while seeing him bat.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Bell shouldnt be there. It is far too easy to set a field to him and have him hit straight to fielders. Its not about strike rate (Ie Bevan had a low strike rate) but the ability to improvise and score runs when a team is bowling well to a field. Bell doesnt have this.
    All could be true, but he has still managed a decent record as an opener. But in a perfect world he probably shouldn't be opening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Wright is there on what they hope he can do rather than deserving to be there. He is a fingers crossed selection. Cant see him ever being consistent but there will be occasional good innings along the way. I think a place could be found for a player like him (hard hitting and ok quick) but he isnt one of the first names on the list.
    Word, but i'd be tempted to say he looks better than Flintoff when he came on the scene.

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