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The Future of New Zealand cricket
- Thread starter S.P. Fleming
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I was just thinking today that the extent of what New Zealand have lost to the batting side of things has been glossed over a bit by the loss of Bond and the perennial moaning that goes on when top order fails.
New Zealand last toured England in 2004, and they didn't have a great batting lineup back then by any means. Fleming was forced to open the batting and ridiculous second innings batting collapses (as well as some poor second innings bowling at times) cost New Zealand the series. Step by step though, New Zealand have lost six of the top seven to retirement in the last four years. This was the top 7 in Chris Cairns's last Test:
1. Mark Richardson
2. Stephen Fleming
3. Scott Styris
4. Nathan Astle
5. Craig McMillan
6. Jacob Oram
7. Chris Cairns
Lou Vincent, the other opening option, has also retired along with the great hope Hamish Marshall who wasn't quite in the frame back then. That's your best seven specialist batsmen and your best allrounder all gone within four years, with little indication a few of the retirements were on the horizon. A few of them were pretty needless as well and could have been delayed with better management. To make matters worse, the "nearly men" of that generation in Fulton and Sinclair have found poor form at the worst possible time and are out of the reckoning themselves.
Only Oram, who is not even a specialist batsman, has remained, and his Test batting has actually regressed a tad - in fact he finds himself one place lower down.
All the doom and gloom about the batting from members of this forum, including myself, has been a bit out of context, really. Any country would struggle from such a great and immediate loss of batting stocks, especially one with historically low player depth. With proper player management, the current Test top order would be the A team top order at the moment, increasing the standard of First Class cricket and continuing to learn their trade while several from the above lineup stayed on. Take Flynn for example - he's looked quite promising, but he's not a Test player yet. Two more seasons of First Class cricket to give him the experience to refine his game would make him all the better for his debut in years to come (or indeed show him up as the one season wonder he could yet be before he was risked as Test level). How and Taylor would probably be in the side anyway to step in for Richardson and McMillan, but the likes of Flynn, Redmond and Marshall should not be there - not yet at least.
If anything, the fact that Taylor and How have stood up as younger players and the fact that McCullum has shown significant signs of improvement are very good (and someone fortunate!) signs. Taylor and How could have quite easily been the flops their first few Tests indicated they might be, and McCullum would have gone on his merry way of his mid-20s average.
The fact that New Zealand's batting is so damn bad at the moment is hardly a surprise when you consider the mass exodus, and in reality it actually could have been much worse. The natural order has been disturbed and the depth has been tested. It'll work itself out soon enough but New Zealand could well be in for a mini-era of very poor batting. It doesn't bode horribly for the future as such though as it's not *supposed* to be the time for change just yet - certainly not the mass change that has been forced.
New Zealand last toured England in 2004, and they didn't have a great batting lineup back then by any means. Fleming was forced to open the batting and ridiculous second innings batting collapses (as well as some poor second innings bowling at times) cost New Zealand the series. Step by step though, New Zealand have lost six of the top seven to retirement in the last four years. This was the top 7 in Chris Cairns's last Test:
1. Mark Richardson
2. Stephen Fleming
3. Scott Styris
4. Nathan Astle
5. Craig McMillan
6. Jacob Oram
7. Chris Cairns
Lou Vincent, the other opening option, has also retired along with the great hope Hamish Marshall who wasn't quite in the frame back then. That's your best seven specialist batsmen and your best allrounder all gone within four years, with little indication a few of the retirements were on the horizon. A few of them were pretty needless as well and could have been delayed with better management. To make matters worse, the "nearly men" of that generation in Fulton and Sinclair have found poor form at the worst possible time and are out of the reckoning themselves.
Only Oram, who is not even a specialist batsman, has remained, and his Test batting has actually regressed a tad - in fact he finds himself one place lower down.
All the doom and gloom about the batting from members of this forum, including myself, has been a bit out of context, really. Any country would struggle from such a great and immediate loss of batting stocks, especially one with historically low player depth. With proper player management, the current Test top order would be the A team top order at the moment, increasing the standard of First Class cricket and continuing to learn their trade while several from the above lineup stayed on. Take Flynn for example - he's looked quite promising, but he's not a Test player yet. Two more seasons of First Class cricket to give him the experience to refine his game would make him all the better for his debut in years to come (or indeed show him up as the one season wonder he could yet be before he was risked as Test level). How and Taylor would probably be in the side anyway to step in for Richardson and McMillan, but the likes of Flynn, Redmond and Marshall should not be there - not yet at least.
If anything, the fact that Taylor and How have stood up as younger players and the fact that McCullum has shown significant signs of improvement are very good (and someone fortunate!) signs. Taylor and How could have quite easily been the flops their first few Tests indicated they might be, and McCullum would have gone on his merry way of his mid-20s average.
The fact that New Zealand's batting is so damn bad at the moment is hardly a surprise when you consider the mass exodus, and in reality it actually could have been much worse. The natural order has been disturbed and the depth has been tested. It'll work itself out soon enough but New Zealand could well be in for a mini-era of very poor batting. It doesn't bode horribly for the future as such though as it's not *supposed* to be the time for change just yet - certainly not the mass change that has been forced.
Last edited:
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Agreed. Top analysis.
People like Broom and Nicol, imo, are more ready for test cricket than Flynn, Ryder, Hay or Marshall (who will never be ready). Should be making touring sides at least to play warm up matches to prove their worth.
People like Broom and Nicol, imo, are more ready for test cricket than Flynn, Ryder, Hay or Marshall (who will never be ready). Should be making touring sides at least to play warm up matches to prove their worth.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nicol had a shocking season this year by his, or anyone's standards. There was no way the selectors could have called on him. He'll have to step back up to come back into recognition, and I also disagree with your assessment of who's ready and who's not. Ryder is ready for test cricket, or was. He should be made to wait now until he makes a very persuasive case, but he was ready.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Nicol was ready last season imo, but he did have a horrible season this year. It's just unfortunate that he's been leap frogged by Marshall and Flynn, while Hay possibly will do the same.
Will concede the Ryder point, though.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pah. Marshall hasn't leapfrogged anyone in my estimation. He's proved time and time again that he's not international class. He came into this tour in top form, and he's been abysmal across the board.
I'd rather have any Ian Smith batting for New Zealand than Marshall - even the deceased former Prime Minister of Rhodesia.
S.P. Fleming
U19 Cricketer
I reckon they would hgive this woeful side a run for their money. The sooner JB goes the better for NZ cricket. When is he going to realise that the marshalls have no future.Anyone reckon NZ A could beat the black caps?
S.P. Fleming
U19 Cricketer
the next couple of years I think we should be patient and settle on a good XI. It is after that when we should want results
Flem274*
123/5
How
Redmond
Marshall
Taylor
Flynn
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin
exclusions:
O'Brien (not seen as a first teamer)
Franklin (injured)
vs (bloody hell can't remember the full team)
Peter Ingram
Martin Guptill
Bradley Watling
Greg Hay
Neil Broom
Corey Anderson
Bevan Griggs
Bradley Scott
Leighton Burtt
Brent Arnel
Trent Boult
Correct me if I'm wrong on any NZ A players or players selected who are better than ones in there.
The Back Caps would win but I reckon that the bowlers would own Marshall quite easily and perhaps spark a couple of collapses.
NZ A would struggle with its top order though if the Black Caps bowlers got the damn thing in the right place.
Redmond
Marshall
Taylor
Flynn
McCullum
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin
exclusions:
O'Brien (not seen as a first teamer)
Franklin (injured)
vs (bloody hell can't remember the full team)
Peter Ingram
Martin Guptill
Bradley Watling
Greg Hay
Neil Broom
Corey Anderson
Bevan Griggs
Bradley Scott
Leighton Burtt
Brent Arnel
Trent Boult
Correct me if I'm wrong on any NZ A players or players selected who are better than ones in there.
The Back Caps would win but I reckon that the bowlers would own Marshall quite easily and perhaps spark a couple of collapses.
NZ A would struggle with its top order though if the Black Caps bowlers got the damn thing in the right place.