Best ODI batsman?

[ret]

when Ponting didn't work, they brought in Gilly

wonder who they will bring in next?

 

[Ikki]

now if someone brings in someone who gives you x runs of x or less balls, i.e. then does than make him better than Gilly?

I am not sure what you mean? If he has better output, maybe? I used that as an example to show how their output is actually very similar. And if it hinges on a 'big game' I'd pick Gilchrist.

If I were making an all-time XI they'd line-up together to open.

 

[Richard]

WCs Finals (the only games that matter btw)

No, they're not. If you don't perform well in preliminaries, you don't reach finals. Performance in all World Cup games is absolutely crucial (apart from the occasional dead one, obviously).

 

[Ikki]

No, they're not. If you don't perform well in preliminaries, you don't reach finals. Performance in all World Cup games is absolutely crucial (apart from the occasional dead one, obviously).

Let's stop pointing out the obvious. All the matches 'matter' but when you're discussing the best and wish to split them in the hardest times that they can ply their magic then you are talking about the finals - definitely not the prelims.

 

[silentstriker]

Good point

Is Gilchrist, who has arguably won Oz 3 WCs Finals (the only games that matter btw) on the trot, the best ever?

Sorry, I didn't know that every team was guaranteed to play in the final.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Oh right. You are right, Tendulkar is 0/1. In your mind, apparently, this is enough. You will be OK when I use 0/1 as proof of failure when discussing other players?

Oh, and Tendulkar averages 57 in world cups. So obviously no games in the world cup matters. Except the one final he was in. Of course, you don't need to do anything to get to the final...that's not important at all.


Oh, and who was the man of the tournament in World Cup 2003? I guess scoring 673 runs in the World Cup is not performing when it matters. Let's judge his 16 year career on one day.

It makes perfect sense though, Manan. Just forget the fact that Ponting has only scored more than 50 in a World Cup final on one occasion, in four attempts. In a WC final he's only scored more than Tendulkar's average on two occasions, but on one of those occasions Australia lost. Aravinda scored 107 not out in that game. His average in finals is infinite. He averages less than Ponting, but he has an infinitely higher average in World Cup finals, when it counts.

 

[silentstriker]

Let's stop pointing out the obvious. All the matches 'matter' but when you're discussing the best and wish to split them in the hardest times that they can ply their magic then you are talking about the finals - definitely not the prelims.

No, if you're talking about the hardest times, you have to pick the entire world cup. Basing any kind of conclusion of n=1 is completely and utterly insane. Ridiculously so. I am shocked people can't see that.

And even picking a single world cup is ridiculous, though less so.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sorry, I didn't know that every team was guaranteed to play in the final.

If only Brian Lara knew about that. It would have been his only chance at this title.

 

[Richard]

Let's stop pointing out the obvious. All the matches 'matter' but when you're discussing the best and wish to split them in the hardest times that they can ply their magic then you are talking about the finals - definitely not the prelims.

Saying "World Cup finals are the only games that matter" is nonsense. Pure and simple. No-one in their right minds is going to judge a disproportionate amount by a game that occurs once every 4 years.

 

[social]

Must say, that I find it incredibly ironic to see all this "love" for Tendy after everyone wanted him dropped a year ago

The fact remains that, although an incredibly brilliant player, his ODI record is padded (and I'm not going to point out that his WC record is almost entirely due to pummeling crap sides)

Give me the players that perform under pressure every time I'm afraid

 

[silentstriker]

Give me the players that perform under pressure every time I'm afraid

Except you claimed Ponting was that player and his record in WC finals isn't always good either...he didn't perform every time and if he just happened to not get there again he would be a bad player?

 

[silentstriker]

Must say, that I find it incredibly ironic to see all this "love" for Tendy after everyone wanted him dropped a year ago

Why is it ironic? I could want him dropped right now because he may no longer be good, but that doesn't mean he was never good.

 

[ret]

I am not sure what you mean? If he has better output, maybe? I used that as an example to show how their output is actually very similar. And if it hinges on a 'big game' I'd pick Gilchrist.

If I were making an all-time XI they'd line-up together to open.

take someone who scores 8 runs less than Gilly from run a ball or less, does that make him better than Gilly?

Gilly 36 [thats 8 less than Tendulkar] of 37 balls
xyz 28 [thats 8 less than Gilly] of 28 or less balls

is xyz > Gilly?

 

[Ikki]

No, if you're talking about the hardest times, you have to pick the entire world cup. Basing any kind of conclusion of n=1 is completely and utterly insane. Ridiculously so. I am shocked people can't see that.

And even picking a single world cup is ridiculous, though less so.

Well, it goes a bit further than that. If you count everything other than prelims (quarters, semis and finals) both Ponting and Gilchrist are again superior to Sachin. Ponting just but Gilchrist much further ahead. He averages 50.5 at and SR of 120.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Let's stop pointing out the obvious. All the matches 'matter' but when you're discussing the best and wish to split them in the hardest times that they can ply their magic then you are talking about the finals - definitely not the prelims.

So a performance in the final trumps several performances on the way there?

Ricky Ponting in World Cups (not including the final): 32 innings, 1290 runs @ 44.48
Ricky Ponting in World Cup finals: 4 innings, 247 runs @ 82.33
Sachin Tendulkar in World Cups (not including the final): 34 innings, 1792 runs @ 59.73
Sachin Tendulkar in World Cup finals: 1 innings, 4 runs @ 4.00

Doesn't say much IMO.

 

[Ikki]

take someone who scores 8 runs less than Gilly from run a ball or less, does that make him better than Gilly?

Gilly 36 [thats 8 less than Tendulkar] of 37 balls
xyz 28 [thats 8 less than Gilly] of 28 or less balls

is xyz > Gilly?

No, I wouldn't say so. The lower you go the less importance it has. Someone could theoretically score at an average of 1 run at a rate of 1 ball. Wouldn't make them superior. A healthy average is key. An average of 36 is hardly poor whereas I'd consider 28 poor.

You're also pretending that I say that this makes Gilchrist better. I said it doesn't, but it puts him near Sachin whereas people often claim he isn't.

 

[Richard]

Must say, that I find it incredibly ironic to see all this "love" for Tendy after everyone wanted him dropped a year ago

No-one ever wanted him dropped from India's ODI side. Especially after it became clear he was content to aim for the 2011 WC.

 

[Sanz]

Good point

Is Gilchrist, who has arguably won Oz 3 WCs Finals (the only games that matter btw) on the trot, the best ever?

That's such a lame point. How are the WC finals the only game that matter ? Does that mean Gilchrist's ODI career has lasted dead set 3 matches ? The 3 games he wouldn't have played if not for other players.

TBH, such posts are nothing but flame bait.

 

[R_D]

Must say, that I find it incredibly ironic to see all this "love" for Tendy after everyone wanted him dropped a year ago

The fact remains that, although an incredibly brilliant player, his ODI record is padded (and I'm not going to point out that his WC record is almost entirely due to pummeling crap sides)

Give me the players that perform under pressure every time I'm afraid

What does that have to do with with this discussion......
Even though some people were saying drop Sachin from ODI team but that doesn't mean he hasn't had a great career and that he's not a great ODI player. He was going through a rough patch so people were advocating dropping him. Doesn't mean Sachin was no good of player.

Anyway the bias in this thread is so obvious to see.. no point even saying anything really.

 

[Ikki]

So a performance in the final trumps several performances on the way there?

Ricky Ponting in World Cups (not including the final): 32 innings, 1290 runs @ 44.48
Ricky Ponting in World Cup finals: 4 innings, 247 runs @ 82.33
Sachin Tendulkar in World Cups (not including the final): 34 innings, 1792 runs @ 59.73
Sachin Tendulkar in World Cup finals: 1 innings, 4 runs @ 4.00

Doesn't say much IMO.

I kinda answered this already. Aside from prelims, Tendulkar's finals record in WC is inferior to both. Gilchrist is godlike TBF.