Samuels found liable

[Jigga988]

But the game of cricket has far, far more to lose by being lenient on such people than they have to gain by said leniency

Don't you think that perhaps you are going slightly overboard, for instance in England Vs The Kiwis Jacob Oram punched his bat after getting out and was fined a percentege of his match fee

 

[roseboy64]

Samuels was in India for a few extra days after the WI left. Was to pursue some modelling and reality show business opportunities. Didn't pan out and his credit card wasn't working and he called Kochar to pay for him. That according to one of his lawyers. Legitimate really. Guessing there was other stuff as that's really circumstantial based on him giving Kochar info. That was the bare bones of it.

Haha, right. Sure.

Doesn't really matter if you can prove he got benefit. Giving information alone is enough for the maximum possible punishment.

Sorry wasn't his lawyer but someone from the WICB. Information he told him was that he'd be bowling first change, from what I know. Will need to see a transcrift of the convo to make sure. And you have to prove he benefitted based on the ICC rules which I quoted above. Also, he's known Mukesh Kochar for around 6 years according to his mother. Basically, if his credit card was working and he paid for the room himself nothing would have happened. Getting Kochar to help him out makes it seem like he's being rewarded. The two are supposed to be friends which is why he asked.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Samuels was in India for a few extra days after the WI left. Was to pursue some modelling and reality show business opportunities. Didn't pan out and his credit card wasn't working and he called Kochar to pay for him. That according to one of his lawyers. Legitimate really. Guessing there was other stuff as that's really circumstantial based on him giving Kochar info. That was the bare bones of it.

 

[roseboy64]

Can see the modelling thing based on how Samuels operates. Oh and the reality thing got cancelled because he didn't trust the people that he'd get his money.

 

[silentstriker]

Basically, if his credit card was working and he paid for the room himself nothing would have happened. Getting Kochar to help him out makes it seem like he's being rewarded. The two are supposed to be friends which is why he asked.

How convenient.

Sorry wasn't his lawyer but someone from the WICB. Information he told him was that he'd be bowling first change, from what I know. Will need to see a transcrift of the convo to make sure. And you have to prove he benefitted based on the ICC rules which I quoted above.

I don't really care what ICC rules state. I am stating what I think should happen. ICC will run away as usual, but giving information to a bookie should not be legal regardless of whether you can prove a benefit. Otherwise, you can just make a deal to receieve benefit thats not easily traceable (such as, for example, him arranging for you to get a job in India through which he pays you your reward).

 

[roseboy64]

Panel found nothing wrong with his convo with the man.

 

[roseboy64]

Found a story with the transcript.

Here it is:

Below is the transcript of the conversation the Nagpur police say took place between Marlon Samuels and Mukesh Kochar, before the India-West Indies match at Nagpur on January 21, 2007.

Samuels was staying in Room 206 of the Pride Hotel in the city. The transcript is verbatim from the police records:

Bookie: Connect to 206

Reception: 206, sir?

Bookie: Yes

Rec: Hello, room no 206, Marlon

Bookie: Hello, how are you Marlon?

206: not clear

Bookie: Just relax buddy

206: Just relax

Bookie: Hello my son, that's way I am here, came for my some work and am held up

206: OK

Bookie: Tomorrow night I am going back

206: OK

Bookie: So how are things with you and how is the preparation?

206: Preparation is good enough

Bookie: Well, wish you all the best

206: Thanks

Bookie: You play well

206: (Not clear) Talking to Robinson

Bookie: Robinson...Yes

206: Yes, our fielding well

Bookie: Ya, good that's a high-scoring game

206: Early in the morning... Batting move around the pitch...

Bookie: an in the evening lower down

206: Slow down...

Bookie: What you think that, who will bat...

206: Well...

Bookie: Who, who?

206: Dwayne (not clear) He's is making a debut tomorrow...

Bookie: New batsman, bowlers...

206: All-rounder...

Bookie: He are a good player...

206: Making debut

Bookie: Ya, I can understand that Chris is in form...

206: (Not clear)...

Bookie: And how is your batting going on?

206: My batting is good...

Bookie: Big... a... tall score tomorrow

206: (Not clear)

Room no 206: (not clear)

Bookie: When do you get down to bowl

206: (not clear)

Bookie: Which over you will be bowling

206: One down

Bookie: Normally after 17th or 18th over

206: By tomorrow... (not clear) than I can bowl... (not clear)

Bookie: He is seamer or spinner

206: Seamer

Bookie: He is a seamer, who will start bowling tomorrow

206: Dwayne

Bookie: Dwayne

206: Dwayne, tail and Bradshaw

Bookie: Tail and Bradshaw, they will open. You will be as the third bowler

206: Jerome Taylor, Chris Gayle will be 4th and 5th bowling

Bookie: You have got a nice allrounder team now

Bookie: As a first match, I want you to play well confident and don't hurry up, don't give the catches, play well, consolidate your position as well as possible if even if you can want couple of balls, it doesn't matter, don¹t get run out.. don't get excited, have a strong position

206: (not clear)

Bookie: After this you guys going to Cuttack, that's another place

206: (not clear)

Bookie: I am going back, we will be in touch with you

206: Most welcome

Bookie: Whenever you come back to Bombay? Most probably may be I will come there for one or two days

206: I want to stay there for couple of days

Bookie: Yeah, after (not clear)

206: Yeah

Bookie: Let me know I am flying back tomorrow

206: Not yet

Bookie: Yeah my flight (not clear) O'clock & from their I will fly back to Bombay

206: (not clear)

Bookie: Thank you very much chief

206: (not clear)

Bookie: All the best, after this I will have to work

206: (not clear)

Bookie: Ok good

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

There's a lot wrong with that convo.

 

[roseboy64]

Namely? Just asking BTW nothing meant.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I can't really see how that conversation can be anything in the guise of ignorance. I've read it a few times and considered it in every context that I can think of, and also considered that there's a lot of dialogue missing. But from that, as evidence, it appears quite conclusively that he's supplying information to a bookie. Not chatting with a friend. Not tricked into tipping information. That conversation strongly indicates that he's consciously supplying information.

 

[roseboy64]

It does suggest that but doesn't suggest it was to a bookie. Samuels' mother views Kochar as a friend and no reward would be forthcoming but for his money issue. The panel of jurists found not much problem with the convo.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

It does suggest that but doesn't suggest it was to a bookie. Samuels' mother views Kochar as a friend and no reward would be forthcoming but for his money issue. The panel of jurists found not much problem with the convo.

What about that conversation is friendly? It's not a casual conversation about cricket. There's intent there by the alleged bookie to get information.

 

[roseboy64]

Probably.

 

[silentstriker]

no reward would be forthcoming but for his money issue.

That, to me, is irrelevant. The reward could have been promised in the future sometime to avoid suspicion, or channeled through a legitimate intermediary (e.g, a job in India). That conversation is pretty damning. Plus the questions are direct and specific, and not a casual conversation with friend "What over will you be bowling?", "Who will start bowling tomorrow", etc .

 

[Craig]

I think we know who wins this year's International Idiot Cricketer of the Year Award...

 

[roseboy64]

Was last year TBH.

 

[_Ed_]

I think we know who wins this year's International Idiot Cricketer of the Year Award...

Jesse Ryder IMO.

 

[SJS]

It does suggest that but doesn't suggest it was to a bookie. Samuels' mother views Kochar as a friend and no reward would be forthcoming but for his money issue. The panel of jurists found not much problem with the convo.

That Kochar is a bookie is not in doubt. Its a well known and established fact.

If Samuel has a bookie as a friend, he is treading on very thin ice.

There is nothing in that conversation to suggest that they are warm buddies. If anything Marlon is awkward and his almost monosyllable responses do not show any level of intimacy.

Nothing that is discussed in there is what you would take as normal chat between friends.

There is a lot of information being asked even if the response is not clear

• What you think that, who will bat...
• Who, who?
• New batsman, bowlers... (?)
• When do you get down to bowl ?
• Which over you will be bowling ?
• Normally after 17th or 18th over ?
• He is a seamer, who will start bowling tomorrow ? (about Dwayne)
• Tail and Bradshaw, they will open. You will be as the third bowler ?

What is all this if not information asked by a bookie. Some of it Marlon answers, some he doesn't directly and some is not clear. But there is no doubt about the motives of Kochhar and the fact that Marlon goes along leaves no doubt as to marlon being aware of what was going on.

If a friend of mone asked me what number I will bowl and who will bowl after me, I would say, "hey buddy, why do you want to know that? How does it matter. "

 

[Craig]

That Kochar is a bookie is not in doubt. Its a well known and established fact.

If Samuel has a bookie as a friend, he is treading on very thin ice.

There is nothing in that conversation to suggest that they are warm buddies. If anything Marlon is awkward and his almost monosyllable responses do not show any level of intimacy.

Nothing that is discussed in there is what you would take as normal chat between friends.

There is a lot of information being asked even if the response is not clear

• What you think that, who will bat...
• Who, who?
• New batsman, bowlers... (?)
• When do you get down to bowl ?
• Which over you will be bowling ?
• Normally after 17th or 18th over ?
• He is a seamer, who will start bowling tomorrow ? (about Dwayne)
• Tail and Bradshaw, they will open. You will be as the third bowler ?

What is all this if not information asked by a bookie. Some of it Marlon answers, some he doesn't directly and some is not clear. But there is no doubt about the motives of Kochhar and the fact that Marlon goes along leaves no doubt as to marlon being aware of what was going on.

If a friend of mone asked me what number I will bowl and who will bowl after me, I would say, "hey buddy, why do you want to know that? How does it matter. "

Yeah shocking lack of professionalism by Samuels.

 

[sledger]

I'd suggest that he's just acted stupidly rather than unfprofessionally. Needs to have the book thrown at him tbh, this sort of behaviour needs to be stamped out.