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View Poll Results: Better bowler

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  • Imran Khan

    26 32.10%
  • Glenn McGrath

    47 58.02%
  • Peter Moore

    8 9.88%
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Thread: Who is better Imran Khan or Glenn Mcgrath?

  1. #31
    International Coach archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBH001 View Post
    Thats what is going through my mind as well, AM.

    I have seen quite a few clips of Imran bowling at his best, and have followed McGrath through his career and seen him at his best. It does seem to me that Imran was better, especially in the middle portion of his career, even if the stats favour McGrath.

    I have yet to make up my mind though.
    Imran was clearly quicker, bowled a great yorker and outswinger (plus some reverse swing), and watching both, you would think Imran in a different class, but obviously it is different out in the middle.

    I also wonder if in Imran's day the batsman were much more cautious, and would have waited on GM, he seemed to get a lot of batsman out through the batsman trying to take control

    Still you have to keep coming back to that record
    You know it makes sense.

  2. #32
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    McGrath, no contest

  3. #33
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    Doesnt matter that McGrath doesnt swing it, hes the most accurate bowler of all time and he made the batsman play every ball

  4. #34
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond21 View Post
    Doesnt matter that McGrath doesnt swing it, hes the most accurate bowler of all time and he made the batsman play every ball
    Has anyone doubted Mcgrath's ability to succeed ?


  5. #35
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    the khan for me...

  6. #36
    U19 12th Man
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    McGrath had less pace, less swing and I always thought there was far more destructive and talented bowlers around, but the guy could bowl on a dime and just seemed to get wickets (even if at times I wonder exaclty how he worked batsman over with just such limited bowling).

    Surely a title that might best describe McGrath might be "the most remarkable unremarkable bowler in test history".

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malleeboy View Post
    McGrath had less pace, less swing and I always thought there was far more destructive and talented bowlers around, but the guy could bowl on a dime and just seemed to get wickets (even if at times I wonder exaclty how he worked batsman over with just such limited bowling).

    Surely a title that might best describe McGrath might be "the most remarkable unremarkable bowler in test history".
    Have a look at the hat-trick McGrath took against the Windies

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJvqL4_O6w

    There's an analysis of it somewhere by Buchanan that describes how McGrath had run through each of those batsmen and nominated their weakness before the game.

    Come game time, he delivered the 3 totally different deliveries that he believed would get them in trouble and a hat-trick was the result

    Sums him up really
    Last edited by social; 08-05-2008 at 11:51 PM.

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Until someone can show me significant proportions of Imran wickets that obviously came due to incorrect Umpiring decisions, I'm not going to take any note of that. As I say previously - pure conjecture. There is nothing obvious like there is with Javed Miandad's diplomatic immunity from lbws.

    And I assure you - if you can, I can show you large numbers of McGrath wickets that came from poor strokes - whole matches between 2001 and 2004/05 where, on non-seaming wickets (which formed all bar about 3 or 4 Tests), he didn't take a single wicket with a wicket-taking delivery.
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  9. #39
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    http://youtube.com/watch?v=5wsTcONIJ6w

    watch that. What Mark Nicholas says is true about his whole philosophy is to hit the top of off stump.

    KISS theory - Keep it simple stupid.

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Have a look at the hat-trick McGrath took against the Windies

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJvqL4_O6w

    There's an analysis of it somewhere by Buchanan that describes how McGrath had run through each of those batsmen and nominated their weakness before the game.

    Come game time, he delivered the 3 totally different deliveries that he believed would get them in trouble and a hat-trick was the result

    Sums him up really
    Reminds me of the little over replays they have and they show where the ball pitched and where it ended up. You watch one of McGrath's and you get it. He pitches 6 balls within inches of each other and each one seams drastically in a different area for that batsman. How do you face that? Extraordinary.
    Last edited by Ikki; 09-05-2008 at 03:00 AM.
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  11. #41
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Until someone can show me significant proportions of Imran wickets that obviously came due to incorrect Umpiring decisions, I'm not going to take any note of that. As I say previously - pure conjecture. There is nothing obvious like there is with Javed Miandad's diplomatic immunity from lbws.

    And I assure you - if you can, I can show you large numbers of McGrath wickets that came from poor strokes - whole matches between 2001 and 2004/05 where, on non-seaming wickets (which formed all bar about 3 or 4 Tests), he didn't take a single wicket with a wicket-taking delivery.
    Even if you could and even if it were true, what in heaven's name does one have to do with the other?

  12. #42
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    Check this out, Imran Khan's bowling against India in 1982/83. Fast, ferocious banana swing and bouncers on the deadest wickets against a mighty Indian batting lineup. Fast bowling at its best, IMO.

    Ignore the commentary though

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=wXjsuWol9v0

  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic View Post
    Even if you could and even if it were true, what in heaven's name does one have to do with the other?
    Both are examples of bowlers getting wickets which were not "earned".
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  14. #44
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBH001 View Post
    Richard, no offense. But that is a nonsensical argument. Most wickets from most bowlers are not taken by "wicket taking" deliveries, in fact usually (depending on the batsman concerned and conditions) wicket taking deliveries (by that I take it you mean jaffas or similar) do not take wickets.
    Of course, only a tiny number of wickets come from what I tend to call RUDs (realistically unplayable deliveries - as strictly speaking there's no such thing as an absolutely unplayable delivery as an awful shot could mean you played a delivery which you'd never play with a good shot; and strictly speaking a Jaffa is a ball you can't lay bat on). However, a few of things:
    1, there's plenty of wickets that come from good bowling and less-than-100%-perfect batting. For instance, the succession of away-swingers followed by the straight ball. The straight ball wasn't realistically unplayable, and had it not been preceded by loads of outswingers would've been an easy one which most batsmen would always keep out without difficulty. But it's still damn superb bowling. For another instance, there's the 2.5 overs of just back-of-length balls that don't move unduly and keep the batsman tied to the crease and keep his score stationary, then the big outswinger outside off just short of Half-Volley length that persuades the batsman to drive and draws the nick to the wicketkeeper. Again, superb bowling - but if the batsman had left the ball, it'd have been harmless. And a really good batsman might possibly do so.
    2, I don't mind at all if a bowler takes 4-50 by taking 1 wicket with a RUD, 1 wicket with something akin to one of the scenarios mentioned above, then 2 with nothing outside-off balls that don't move at all and that batsman for some reason edges to slip or hits to extra-cover. Even though the latter 2 wickets involve no credit for the bowler whatsoever, he's still, in my view, bowled well. However, if a bowler takes 4-50 when all the wickets come from poor shots to deliveries that made zero contribution to those shots, that's not remotely good bowling in my view, and simply being flattered by figures.
    3, the McGrath 2001-2004/05 case. McGrath, all career, was absolutely brilliant on seaming pitches, one of if not the best going around. And in the Adelaide Test of 2004/05 against New Zealand, he demonstrated something I'd never seen him do before - he got the ball to move off a non-seaming pitch. And he did it again several times in the next 3 years. However, on non-seaming pitches 2001-2004 (which were all bar 3 or 4 games in the time) McGrath never took any wickets through particularly good deliveries. Of course, some of this time he ended-up with poor figures. But often he'd get 3-40 or 4-60 without, in my view, bowling well at all. Hence, I've always said that in that time he wasn't quite as good as he was oft made-out to be. Until Adelaide 2004/05, I also presumed that it'd always been that way before 2001 too, though conversations with someone (Corey) not long after that Test persuaded me that it actually hadn't been, and that he had indeed bowled as well as he bowled in that game pre-2001 too. So I decided I did actually think he was one of the best seamers in history after all. But my opinion of 2001-2004/05 remained.

  15. #45
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic View Post
    Even if you could and even if it were true, what in heaven's name does one have to do with the other?
    When it comes to 'wicket-taking deliveries' I've learned not to take Richard talking about McGrath too much to heart.

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