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View Poll Results: Better bowler

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  • Imran Khan

    26 32.10%
  • Glenn McGrath

    47 58.02%
  • Peter Moore

    8 9.88%
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Thread: Who is better Imran Khan or Glenn Mcgrath?

  1. #286
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Anyone who's eyes were detecting Imran's speed as discernibly faster than Holding's should make an urgent appointment at the opticians. Imran was undoubtedly quick but during his peak years as a bowler "express pace" was not a major assett of his.
    Thats correct. Imran was fast but he wasn't amongst the fastest. He is clear in his book that he realised that it was better to be fast 'enough' with movement and control rather than just VERY fast, PERIOD

    With the amount he moved the ball, both in the air and off the wicket, his pace was superb. But it was the movement (albeit at ha high enough speed) that was his major weapon.

    Its amazing how we fight amongst ourselves as to how our particular hero is/was the fastest as if somehow that makes him greater than everyone else. While it is clearly not enough to be the fastest in the world to be the best in the world.

    The absolutely fastest bowlers in the world havent been the greatest and thats been true through the history of the game. Some like Kortright did not even play for their country.

  2. #287
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    During the pace competition in the 70s, Imran came in third behind Thomson and Holding. Imran was easily express pace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    Indeed. Also to add to this, I believe, from what I watched, Imran's average bowling speed was faster than Holding's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Anyone who's eyes were detecting Imran's speed as discernibly faster than Holding's should make an urgent appointment at the opticians. Imran was undoubtedly quick but during his peak years as a bowler "express pace" was not a major assett of his.
    This is the kind of nonsense I hate. People jumping up and down without reading/knowing the context fully well. Richard has consistently proved why he is an absolute Idiot and why he continues to remain in my ignore list and Lillian Thomson, you should know it better.

    I quoted subshakerz post which was talking about the pace competition, It was in that context I added that I believed(from what I watched) that Imran's average speed was faster than Holding's. And guess what, I stand corrected.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDW7hj1yfs

    Imran's average Speed - 138.3, Holding's Average Speed - 135.3

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    This is the kind of nonsense I hate. People jumping up and down without reading/knowing the context fully well. Richard has consistently proved why he is an absolute Idiot and why he continues to remain in my ignore list and Lillian Thomson, you should know it better.

    I quoted subshakerz post which was talking about the pace competition, It was in that context I added that I believed(from what I watched) that Imran's average speed was faster than Holding's. And guess what, I stand corrected.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDW7hj1yfs

    Imran's average Speed - 138.3, Holding's Average Speed - 135.3
    Subshakerz said if two bowlers are relatively equal in merit he goes for the one with express pace. During Imran's best years as a bowler he did not take wickets through the aforementioned express pace. If however he wants to split Imran and McGrath based on a slinging contest then that makes it even more spurious.

  4. #289
    International 12th Man Debris's Avatar
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    If those speeds were actually accurate, then it would seem that they were all fast-medium except Thommo and even he was not express. You would think that they would be bowling faster here than normal as speed was all that mattered. I alway wonder if bowlers get faster after they retire. Speed is a highly overrated attribute for a bowler in any case.


  5. #290
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Subshakerz said if two bowlers are relatively equal in merit he goes for the one with express pace. During Imran's best years as a bowler he did not take wickets through the aforementioned express pace. If however he wants to split Imran and McGrath based on a slinging contest then that makes it even more spurious.

    In the post that I quoted, he doesn't say any such thing. My post was just an addendum to his following comment :-

    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    During the pace competition in the 70s, Imran came in third behind Thomson and Holding. Imran was easily express pace.

    That said, I disagree with you on the fact that he didn't take wickets through express pace. Imran used his express pace effectively while bowling reverse swing and without that extra yard (over Mcgrath's speed) he wouldn't have been as successful with that.

    I am not a sucker for speed but Imran's speed definately help him more than Mcgrath's speed help him (Mcgrath).

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    In the post that I quoted, he doesn't say any such thing. My post was just an addendum to his following comment :-




    That said, I disagree with you on the fact that he didn't take wickets through express pace. Imran used his express pace effectively while bowling reverse swing and without that extra yard (over Mcgrath's speed) he wouldn't have been as successful with that.

    I am not a sucker for speed but Imran's speed definately help him more than Mcgrath's speed help him (Mcgrath).

    He was quicker than McGrath but he didn't take wickets through sheer pace like Marshall and Thomson did.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    He was quicker than McGrath but he didn't take wickets through sheer pace like Marshall and Thomson did.
    particularly Thomson.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Subshakerz said if two bowlers are relatively equal in merit he goes for the one with express pace. During Imran's best years as a bowler he did not take wickets through the aforementioned express pace. If however he wants to split Imran and McGrath based on a slinging contest then that makes it even more spurious.
    Imran's best years as a fast bowler was when he was at his fastest (right until his shin injury in 83). He did take wickets through sheer pace, his reverse swing wouldn't be nearly as effective without the pace. The fact that he could bowl at high pace, combined with his skill with the ball, gives him an edge compared to a bowler such as McGrath who was skillful but lacked that extra gear.

    Marshall certainly thought of the early Imran as the quickest of his time along with himself.

  9. #294
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy View Post
    He's not trying to calculate the exact bowling speed, he's saying there's a discernible difference - which the human eye can detect.
    If there was a discernible difference, it was that Holding was faster. That's fairly obvious.

    Nonetheless, sometimes the human eye can think one piece of bowling looks faster than another, and in reality it can be nothing of the sort. There are too many things that easily deceive the eye, it's too faulty an instrument to make any real judgement on relative speeds unless there's 15kph or more difference.
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  10. #295
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Imran's best years as a fast bowler was when he was at his fastest (right until his shin injury in 83). He did take wickets through sheer pace, his reverse swing wouldn't be nearly as effective without the pace. The fact that he could bowl at high pace, combined with his skill with the ball, gives him an edge compared to a bowler such as McGrath who was skillful but lacked that extra gear.

    Marshall certainly thought of the early Imran as the quickest of his time along with himself.
    Thank You, for making the point so eloquently, esp about the reverse swing.

    Imran could bowl as fast as anyone, if he wanted to and he took wickets too with the sheer pace.

  11. #296
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    He was quicker than McGrath but he didn't take wickets through sheer pace like Marshall and Thomson did.
    What has that got to do with your comments about me 'seeing an optician' ? In that post I never suggested that Imran did or didn't take wickets through sheer pace.
    Last edited by Sanz; 07-06-2008 at 02:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    What has that got to do with your comments about me 'seeing an optician' ? In that post I never suggested that Imran did or didn't take wickets through sheer pace.
    ...........and in that post I never suggested you did.

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    ...........and in that post I never suggested you did.
    Okay then. No Problems.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    Richard has consistently proved why he is an absolute Idiot
    Hardly appropriate. Not only is your comment troublesome but it's completely unprovoked on this occassion - Richard isn't even the source of grief here.

    Consider yourself warned.
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  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Hardly appropriate. Not only is your comment troublesome but it's completely unprovoked on this occassion - Richard isn't even the source of grief here.

    Consider yourself warned.
    Here is his statement trying to mis-represent my post, where it was fairly obvious that I was talking about the pace competition. He is the source that mis-represented my opinion and knowing him through this forum, I think he did so deliberately. Since putting him on ignore, he has taken a lot of potshots, but I have ignored them so far. Not this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not much chance of that. The human eye can't accurately calculate bowling speed.
    Lastly your own double standards are appalling. You continue to miss everything that Richards says, I caught you doing the same in the SS thread the other day and you gave some excuse and here again you dont say anything to the instigator who keeps following me despite knowing fully well that he is on my ignore list.

    Usually I am the first one to admit my mistake, but not this time. Go ahead and do what you want to, I just couldn't care less about your threats or your warning.
    Last edited by Sanz; 07-06-2008 at 09:53 PM.

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