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New Zealand's second-greatest bowler post-1960

New Zealand's second-best bowler post-1960?


  • Total voters
    24

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I think it best we keep it to this period for a couple of reasons: one, this was the time they went from being substandard (a la Bangladesh) to Test-standard; two, there is much doubt about many of their early selections, suggestions that several of the best players in the country were often left-out of teams, which is baffling TSTL.

So, CWers, vote, on what is an intreguing question which, like the 2nd-best Australian batsman after Bradman, has no clear answer. And of course, Richard Hadlee is to New Zealand bowling what Bradman is to Australian batting. So who was next. I'll leave-out Shane Bond as it's fairly obvious it could've been unequivocally him but for injury. So we'll say that in the end his career wasn't of sufficient length to count.

Have always been inclined to go for Collinge, personally.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Without looking at Leslie's post, has he plumped for Graeme Aldridge or Brent Arnel in this vote? Possibly Joey Yovich from the left-field?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
Cairns Jnr. credits learning that ball to Franklyn Stephenson, the West Indian seam-bowler (who never played for West Indies as he had elected for Rebel tours to South Africa) who he played with at Nottinghamshire.

In any case, the slower-ball has been around probably since the dawn of cricket - bowlers have always varied their pace. One of the earliest to use it as a regular tactic in the one-day game was Stephen Waugh in the mid-late-1980s.

EDIT: I suppose Cairns may well have been the first to use the slower-ball Yorker regularly - both the flatter one (which he removed several batsmen with throughout his career) and the flighted one (which was the one he copied from Stephenson and famously dismissed Chris Read with in 1999 - this was a virtual replica of the Stephenson-Hardie dismissal mentioned below). But the slower-ball itself was certainly not new, nor invented by Stephenson, Cairns, Waugh or anyone else.
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
Shane Bond I'd have said, despite the relatively few tests he played. Always had a lot of time for Dion Nash too, who looked the mutts' on the 93 tour up here but (like pretty much every kiwi seamer it seems) had a rough trot with injuries.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
He copied it from Franklyn Stephenson after seeing him bowl Essex opener Brian Hardie in a ODI Final at Lords. Hardie ducked and looked very foolish. Unfortunately for Stephenson once the "cat was out of the bag" he actually wasn't particularly effective with it.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Still am. Although I prefer Simon Doull more as a commentator than a bowler. :laugh:

Hardly seen Dion Nash play, everytime I switch my attention on to cricket in my blur 90s childhood he's always injured.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Voted for Collinge myself. I have heard a lot of great stuff about Motz, not sure on Cameron though.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Shane Bond I'd have said, despite the relatively few tests he played. Always had a lot of time for Dion Nash too, who looked the mutts' on the 93 tour up here but (like pretty much every kiwi seamer it seems) had a rough trot with injuries.
'94 tour TBH.

Incidentally, a few Kiwi seamers, merely from the 1990s and 2000s, who've been disrupted and\or finished by injury...

Doull, Allott, Nash, Cairns (C), O'Connor, Tuffey, Bond, Franklin, Oram, Mills.

There's Ian Butler too, not that I ever thought he was going to amount to anything. And even the spinner Vettori has not been immune.
 

Flem274*

123/5
FWIW my rankings of them.

R Hadlee
J Cowie
S Bond
B Taylor
R Collinge
F Cameron
C Cairns
D Nash
D Motz
S Doull

The rest (apart from Dayle Hadlee I can't remember the rest listed)

EDIT: I expect Mills, Southee and Franklin to edge out a few on that list if they keep bowling like they have been as well.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
'94 tour TBH.

Incidentally, a few Kiwi seamers, merely from the 1990s and 2000s, who've been disrupted and\or finished by injury...

Doull, Allott, Nash, Cairns (C), O'Connor, Tuffey, Bond, Franklin, Oram, Mills.

There's Ian Butler too, not that I ever thought he was going to amount to anything. And even the spinner Vettori has not been immune.
Thats what happens when you have crappy winters therefore you train indoors on concrete for hours on end.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thats what happens when you have crappy winters therefore you train indoors on concrete for hours on end.
Our winters are crappier if not worse than yours TBH - not saying it isn't a factor, merely that we haven't had quite such the problems that NZ have.

Been far from problem-free, of course.
 

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