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View Poll Results: New Zealand's second-best bowler post-1960?

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  • Frank Cameron

    0 0%
  • Dick Motz

    2 8.33%
  • Richard Collinge

    3 12.50%
  • Bruce Taylor

    6 25.00%
  • Dayle Hadlee

    1 4.17%
  • Bernard Lance Cairns

    0 0%
  • Dion Nash

    0 0%
  • Christopher Lance Cairns

    8 33.33%
  • Simon Doull

    0 0%
  • Chris Pringle and Martin Snedden

    1 4.17%
  • Ewen Chatfield

    2 8.33%
  • Danny Morrison

    1 4.17%
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Thread: New Zealand's second-greatest bowler post-1960

  1. #1
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    New Zealand's second-greatest bowler post-1960

    I think it best we keep it to this period for a couple of reasons: one, this was the time they went from being substandard (a la Bangladesh) to Test-standard; two, there is much doubt about many of their early selections, suggestions that several of the best players in the country were often left-out of teams, which is baffling TSTL.

    So, CWers, vote, on what is an intreguing question which, like the 2nd-best Australian batsman after Bradman, has no clear answer. And of course, Richard Hadlee is to New Zealand bowling what Bradman is to Australian batting. So who was next. I'll leave-out Shane Bond as it's fairly obvious it could've been unequivocally him but for injury. So we'll say that in the end his career wasn't of sufficient length to count.

    Have always been inclined to go for Collinge, personally.
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  2. #2
    SJS
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    They did not have another great bowler after 1960

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    They did not have another great bowler after 1960
    Very true. Someone still has to be second best though.

  4. #4
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    I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
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  5. #5
    Hall of Fame Member HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Without looking at Leslie's post, has he plumped for Graeme Aldridge or Brent Arnel in this vote? Possibly Joey Yovich from the left-field?
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  6. #6
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
    Cairns Jnr. credits learning that ball to Franklyn Stephenson, the West Indian seam-bowler (who never played for West Indies as he had elected for Rebel tours to South Africa) who he played with at Nottinghamshire.

    In any case, the slower-ball has been around probably since the dawn of cricket - bowlers have always varied their pace. One of the earliest to use it as a regular tactic in the one-day game was Stephen Waugh in the mid-late-1980s.

    EDIT: I suppose Cairns may well have been the first to use the slower-ball Yorker regularly - both the flatter one (which he removed several batsmen with throughout his career) and the flighted one (which was the one he copied from Stephenson and famously dismissed Chris Read with in 1999 - this was a virtual replica of the Stephenson-Hardie dismissal mentioned below). But the slower-ball itself was certainly not new, nor invented by Stephenson, Cairns, Waugh or anyone else.
    Last edited by Richard; 04-05-2008 at 05:03 AM.
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  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Without looking at Leslie's post, has he plumped for Graeme Aldridge or Brent Arnel in this vote? Possibly Joey Yovich from the left-field?
    Cairns Jnr. TBH.

    Was he a NDer?

    Interested to hear your reasoning for Motz BTW.
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  8. #8
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    Shane Bond I'd have said, despite the relatively few tests he played. Always had a lot of time for Dion Nash too, who looked the mutts' on the 93 tour up here but (like pretty much every kiwi seamer it seems) had a rough trot with injuries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    I've always wanted to know if Chris Cairns was one of the first modern bowler to pioneer the slower ball effectively in ODIs?
    He copied it from Franklyn Stephenson after seeing him bowl Essex opener Brian Hardie in a ODI Final at Lords. Hardie ducked and looked very foolish. Unfortunately for Stephenson once the "cat was out of the bag" he actually wasn't particularly effective with it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Was he a NDer?
    Originally, yes.

  11. #11
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    Still am. Although I prefer Simon Doull more as a commentator than a bowler.

    Hardly seen Dion Nash play, everytime I switch my attention on to cricket in my blur 90s childhood he's always injured.
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  12. #12
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Voted for Collinge myself. I have heard a lot of great stuff about Motz, not sure on Cameron though.
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  13. #13
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    He was pre 1960 but even so Jack Cowie strolls into second place.
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  14. #14
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  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Shane Bond I'd have said, despite the relatively few tests he played. Always had a lot of time for Dion Nash too, who looked the mutts' on the 93 tour up here but (like pretty much every kiwi seamer it seems) had a rough trot with injuries.
    '94 tour TBH.

    Incidentally, a few Kiwi seamers, merely from the 1990s and 2000s, who've been disrupted and\or finished by injury...

    Doull, Allott, Nash, Cairns (C), O'Connor, Tuffey, Bond, Franklin, Oram, Mills.

    There's Ian Butler too, not that I ever thought he was going to amount to anything. And even the spinner Vettori has not been immune.
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