Bhajji 'slaps' Sreesanth, leaves him cryin

[silentstriker]

Do you think that the "tougher" attitude yo're alluding to has been a contrivance, or omethign that is genuinely trying to be fostered in India?

It's trying to be fostered for sure. It's encouraged, and I think you'll definitely see players who know how to walk the line properly in the future. The 'village boys don't care' bit is overrated but there is a shade of truth that until recently the vast majority of cricketers in India have come from very urban backgrounds, and generally upper middle class and upper class families. The 1 billion population who play cricket is a myth - most play with tennis balls and 900 million of them will never have the opportunity to even play with a real ball, let alone afford pads and pitch. The actual cricket playing population of India is probably no bigger than that of England - the cricket watching population, of course, is much bigger.

Until recently poor kids couldn't afford equipment and village kids didn't get looked at, so you also have a different type of player emerging into the national scene. But as I said, that effect is overrated, but it may not be in the future.

Of course, I do not necessarily think its a good thing, but that's another discussion.

 

[vic_orthdox]

No, they're embracing their perception of Australia's behaviour. That's why they suck at it and keep getting in trouble where the Aussies don't (or very often anyway).

Exactly.

 

[Sanz]

No, they're embracing their perception of Australia's behaviour. That's why they suck at it and keep getting in trouble where the Aussies don't (or very often anyway).

It has little to do with any kind of perception. It basically has to do with Individual personalities on a cricket field. Guys like Symonds, Clarke, Mcgrath, Warne, Ponting and to some extent Hayden (Only recently) etc have often landed into controversies/trouble. They are saved by their board and a system which is very proactive unlike the pathetic BCCI which acts only it has to save its own face.

These players may have escaped ICC penalties (mostly because they are the best team and less because they know their limit) but cricket fans all over the world do not have any mis-conception about their behavior.

Guys like Bhajji and SreeSanth are not embracing anything 'Australian'. They are just showing true form of their nature on a cricket field. Bhajji is probably like that, indisciplined,arrogant individual whereas SreeSanth is just plain immature and childish.

 

[Top_Cat]

It has little to do with any kind of perception. It basically has to do with Individual personalities on a cricket field. Guys like Symonds, Clarke, Mcgrath, Warne, Ponting and to some extent Hayden (Only recently) etc have often landed into controversies/trouble. They are saved by their board and a system which is very proactive unlike the pathetic BCCI which acts only it has to save its own face.

These players may have escaped ICC penalties (mostly because they are the best team and less because they know their limit) but cricket fans all over the world do not have any mis-conception about their behavior.

That would only be true if they'd been cited and let-off numerous times. The Aussies don't even get cited very often so obviously their behaviour is okay by umpires who are actually out there and match referees and whom, importantly, have a greater understanding of their native language than can be said about other teams. Both of these groups have little to do with the players' respective boards. Without looking it up, most of the Aussies called before the match referee have been for dissention, not sledging.

If CA had been called upon to defend the Aussie players and kept winning, perhaps you'd have a point but otherwise the perception of the Aussie players as unmerciful sledgers probably needs revision. It's probable that Sreesanth and Harbhajan are just arrogant putz's otherwise but when that sort of behaviour is encouraged and its defence is "Well, the Aussies have been doing it for years!", perception is everything and, in this case, quite faulty.

 

[Sanz]

I don't disagree with you. The Aussies through their domestic system are brought up knowing exactly how to sledge and what is over the line and not. Many of the Indians don't have that as sledging is not as big in the Indian system, so when they get there, they think its anything goes because thats what they think Australia are doing.

Actually Guys like Anil Kumble and Ganguly know it very well how to sledge, If they want to. It is not rocket science, really. If you are a balanced and mature individual you will know where to draw the line. Whereas Guys like Zaheer, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman etc will rarely sledge anyone, it is just not in their personality. Even Pathan, I have never seen him sledge, saw him clap in Damien Martyn's face after getting his wicket or Sharma showing the pavilion to Symonds after getting the wicket is not sledging.

So the public keeps egging them to emulate Australia, and they try doing it but failing because they are inexperienced and can't do it the same way, especially if you are very new like Sreesanth. And of course you have guys like Harbhajan who are separate from the whole thing as they are just morons by their very nature, as I've been saying.

I completely disagree. SreeSanth/Bhajji are just idiots, it has nothing to wth public egging them to sledge anyone.

 

[Sanz]

That would only be true if they'd been cited and let-off numerous times. The Aussies don't even get cited very often so obviously their behaviour is okay by umpires who are actually out there and match referees and whom, importantly, have a greater understanding of their native language than can be said about other teams. Both of these groups have little to do with the players' respective boards. Without looking it up, most of the Aussies called before the match referee have been for dissention, not sledging.

As I said, it doesn't matter whether they get cited or not. Mcgrath was known for his boorish and abusive behaviour on the field and one doesn't need to look at any citation record to know that :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETXPEmsoGM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tCjf58Tw5A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSKmatIN3k&feature=related (This is really embarrasing)


Symonds :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ1xYIim61o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qwiFM8I8gQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq7U9vc27Qg&feature=related

Ponting was a disgrace early in his career. Still remember him mouthing off at Srinath, who offered his apology to him after bowling a bouncer, mouthing off a English coach, infact there are many more .

If CA had been called upon to defend the Aussie players and kept winning, perhaps you'd have a point but otherwise the perception of the Aussie players as unmerciful sledgers probably needs revision.

I am not saying that CA defends its players, infact they are opposite. IMO they recognize the problem/issue and deal with immdiately unlike the BCCI whose first action is to ignore it and then take action on the basis of public opinion. If the public support the player, they will defend the player, if the public oppose the player they will take tough action.

Look at Ricky Ponting, he had a **** personality early in his career and If not for his board (or the System) he probably would not have been the best batsman in the world today.

It's probable that Sreesanth and Harbhajan are just arrogant putz's otherwise but when that sort of behaviour is encouraged and its defence is "Well, the Aussies have been doing it for years!", perception is everything and, in this case, quite faulty.

Obviously that is the line towed by Indian fans in general, needless to say a pathetic attitude, although one must say It is not practiced by majority of Indian players. Even younger guys like Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Sharma (Rohit and Ishant), Pathan etc play aggressive cricket but have rarely been known as sledgers.

It is just the few bad apples who give bad name to Indian cricket and cricketers.

 

[Burgey]

Sree should also be banned as what he did on camera was even more disgraceful, is he a man or what. i m sure he was inspired by one of those ill soppy soaps.

Thanks Harby.

 

[Sanz]

Thanks Harby.

 

[social]

I agree, to some extent, with Sanz

Whether it be the Board, media or public opinion, Australian cricketers "to some degree" are not only given a harsh reality check when they behave really poorly but IMO the players are also aware of where the boundaries are in the first place (e.g. I guarantee that even park cricketers know that hitting someone from the opposition could result in a 10 year ban)

Naturally, you'll always have isolated incidents like McGrath going nuts in the WI or Lehmann making racist remarks but, by and large, their behaviour is within the rules and that's why they dont get cited all that often (people can debate whether it's in the "spirit of the game" but that is another point).

In contrast, the BCCI and some members of the Indian media (who then influence a section of the Indian public) have in effect condoned certain behaviour by making excuses for it (or been in total denial) whilst others have encouraged it as it's been seen as a necessary ingredient for success.

As a consequence, some players then mistakenly believe that they are either above the law or are simply ignorant of any laws that might apply.

Unfortunately, the behaviour of a couple of Indian team members has been atrocious for a few years now and because it has gone largely unchecked, the result was this latest incident

 

[social]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/turbanation-imminent/2008/04/29/1209234862925.html

May not have come to this if previous incidents werent punished by a slap on the wrist

 

[Sanz]

Bindra is an ass himself, I have no regard for what he says. For years he ignored the monster and at times sheltered him and now he is acting as if he has nothing to do with it. He can never be anyone's friend.

Typical BCCI administrators, always want to come out on top of everything.

 

[social]

Bindra is an ass himself, I have no regard for what he says. For years he ignored the monster and at times sheltered him and now he is acting as if he has nothing to do with it. He can never be anyone's friend.

Typical BCCI administrators, always want to come out on top of everything.

Totally agree with that

Indian vs Indian in India in BCCI's showcase obviously attracts different rules as it makes the BCCI look bad

 

[Top_Cat]

In contrast, the BCCI and some members of the Indian media (who then influence a section of the Indian public) have in effect condoned certain behaviour by making excuses for it (or been in total denial) whilst others have encouraged it as it's been seen as a necessary ingredient for success.

As a consequence, some players then mistakenly believe that they are either above the law or are simply ignorant of any laws that might apply.

Unfortunately, the behaviour of a couple of Indian team members has been atrocious for a few years now and because it has gone largely unchecked, the result was this latest incident

Yeah, you get the feeling that the BCCI have really backed the wrong horses with Sree and Hanbi in the past by lionising them in the press. Coming home to roost now, they really look a bit foolish as it's being acknowledged that this has been a long time coming for both players.

 

[honestbharani]

That would only be true if they'd been cited and let-off numerous times. The Aussies don't even get cited very often so obviously their behaviour is okay by umpires who are actually out there and match referees and whom, importantly, have a greater understanding of their native language than can be said about other teams. Both of these groups have little to do with the players' respective boards. Without looking it up, most of the Aussies called before the match referee have been for dissention, not sledging.

If CA had been called upon to defend the Aussie players and kept winning, perhaps you'd have a point but otherwise the perception of the Aussie players as unmerciful sledgers probably needs revision. It's probable that Sreesanth and Harbhajan are just arrogant putz's otherwise but when that sort of behaviour is encouraged and its defence is "Well, the Aussies have been doing it for years!", perception is everything and, in this case, quite faulty.

unfortunately, we have idiots like Proctor who think it is ok for Aus or RSA to sledge but not ok for others..... So it is not like the ICC and its officials haven't had any slight bias over the years... I remember in 97-98, Adam Hollioke absolutely let rip on an umpire during an ODI reg. a run out and got nothing for it and yet at the same time, a few weeks ago in an ODI, Brian Lara told an umpire something like "I think you should go to the 3rd umpire" and sat out 2 matches for it.....

 

[Top_Cat]

unfortunately, we have idiots like Proctor who think it is ok for Aus or RSA to sledge but not ok for others..... So it is not like the ICC and its officials haven't had any slight bias over the years... I remember in 97-98, Adam Hollioke absolutely let rip on an umpire during an ODI reg. a run out and got nothing for it and yet at the same time, a few weeks ago in an ODI, Brian Lara told an umpire something like "I think you should go to the 3rd umpire" and sat out 2 matches for it.....

You're better than this. Remind me what penalty (or lack thereof) Arjuna Rantatunga got in Australia for holding the game to ransom in Adelaide in 1998 again? Oh that's right, absolutely nothing. Wasim Akram bitched and moaned outrageously directly at the umpire when denied a caught behind against Justin Langer in Hobart 2000 yet he wasn't even cited (that Langer probably did hit the ball is irrelevant). Contrast that with how many fines McGrath, Ponting and Warne alone have racked up over the years.

ICC bias is crap. They're far too incompetant for that. If you're going to charge bias, you'll have to do better than that.

 

[SJS]

Anyone who thinks that abusive behaviour is new to Indian (sub-continental cricket) has not seen the India Pakistan matches before the relations between the two countries improved so dramatically in the current decade.

Players used to abuse each other in the foulest of words and language (Punjabi mostly) which both sides understood (everyone in India understands Punjabi swear words).

Till very recently Afridi was so foul mouthed it was impossible not to be revolted by him.

So lets go a bit easy on "we haven't done it till recently" bit.

Coming to the difference between sledging by the Aussies and Indians the big difference is that the Aussies, by and large, do it deliberately as a strategy aimed at certain individuals known to be fragile in temprament. The idea and intentions are clear. To rattle the person and affect his focus on the game.

When an Indian like Harbhajan or Sreesanth does it, its either to give it back to them or as a reaction which means that you have allowed the Aussie strategy to work OR because of the 'stupid' notion that this is what 'aggression' means and trying to come across as an aggressive individual (a la Sreesanth). In this case, you just come across as an idiot (or a Malayalee film's villain which is the same really).

People like Dravid, Sachin, Laxman etc just do not react to the Aussie 'working over' and hence the Australians have given up on them long ago. Now if an Aussie sledges one of these three (or Kumble for that matter) it is only out of frustration which just goes to show that these Indian players are doing a great job on the field with bat or ball. The fact that these are our more successful players against the Aussies is not a coincidence.

Sreesanth, Harbhajan, Nel, Dillon are just idiots who gain absolutely nothing from their behaviour on the field except fines when pulled up.

Those fans who support such behaviour need to get their heads examined for it does nothing for the teams they support - though the negative fall out both on the field and off it (bans/suspensions etc) are always likely.

 

[honestbharani]

You're better than this. Remind me what penalty (or lack thereof) Arjuna Rantatunga got in Australia for holding the game to ransom in Adelaide in 1998 again? Oh that's right, absolutely nothing. Wasim Akram bitched and moaned outrageously directly at the umpire when denied a caught behind against Justin Langer in Hobart 2000 yet he wasn't even cited (that Langer probably did hit the ball is irrelevant). Contrast that with how many fines McGrath, Ponting and Warne alone have racked up over the years.

ICC bias is crap. They're far too incompetant for that. If you're going to charge bias, you'll have to do better than that.

You are getting it the wrong way. I am not talking about the big incidents here. I am talking about minor offences. The Aussie system mostly teaches ppl not to go overboard generally, as Sanz, social and others have pointed out.


Aussies generally do not go overboard, I definitely agree with that. But I have seen that certain minor offences (excessive appealing, dissent at umpires' decisions, send offs and mouthing off at opposition players) have not always been impartially handled. The dissent fines given to Dravid and Sourav on occassions have been laughable to say the least. And match refs like Cammie Smith, Proctor himself, and Mike Denness have often shown that they dont handle those offences the same way.

 

[Langeveldt]

Good article by Micky Arthur on Cricinfo about the recent test series.. Glad he highlighted how good a spirit it was played in, because for the large part it was.. But there is always one bad egg, and it's usually Harbhajan.. Is he the most unpleasant person to play cricket since WG?

 

[Richard]

You're better than this. Remind me what penalty (or lack thereof) Arjuna Rantatunga got in Australia for holding the game to ransom in Adelaide in 1998 again? Oh that's right, absolutely nothing. Wasim Akram bitched and moaned outrageously directly at the umpire when denied a caught behind against Justin Langer in Hobart 2000 yet he wasn't even cited (that Langer probably did hit the ball is irrelevant). Contrast that with how many fines McGrath, Ponting and Warne alone have racked up over the years.

ICC bias is crap. They're far too incompetant for that. If you're going to charge bias, you'll have to do better than that.

As regards the Ranatunga incident, let's not forget that stringent penalties were attempted to be imposed, but the Match-Referee (whether anti-Asina biased or not - probably the latter) was forced to back down by Ranatunga's lawyers. TBH, I was glad, as I thought Ranatunga acted against Emerson for the best, but there's no doubt the legal and cricket interface is often an uneasy one.

And Mike Procter is a poor Match-Referee and it astonishes me that he's still on the panel there. His announced policy on the exchange of words between players is prejudiced. Allied to his obviously poor ruling in the Symonds-Harbhajan case.

 

[Precambrian]

I think at the present rate, Sreesanth would be winning that race for the most Unpopular cricketer on field. But really, who cares? Earlier there used to Glenn McGrath. Who used to swear and send off batsmen who used to get at him. But he was world class in his bowling and that was enough. As long as his bowling spoke for him, noone should've any problem.

Funny how India possesses of two extremeties, at one end you have the world's most experienced current cricketer, who is generally regarded epitome of decency and code of conduct, and has rarely any blemish in his 18-yr old record. At the other end of the spectrum, you got this young fast bowler, hardl 50 wicket old in tests, acting as if he'd fathered every cricketer in this world, and with more mentions in the umpire's notebook than in any girl's date diary.

India is a land of contradictions.