View Poll Results: Best Test match captain?

Voters
79. You may not vote on this poll
  • Archie McLaren

    0 0%
  • Warwick Armstrong

    1 1.27%
  • Bill Woodfull

    0 0%
  • Douglas Jardine

    6 7.59%
  • Frank Worrell

    1 1.27%
  • Richie Benaud

    10 12.66%
  • Raymond Illingworth

    1 1.27%
  • Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi

    0 0%
  • Ian Chappell

    4 5.06%
  • Mike Brearley

    9 11.39%
  • Imran Khan

    12 15.19%
  • Allan Border

    3 3.80%
  • Arjuna Ranatunga

    5 6.33%
  • Mark Taylor

    7 8.86%
  • Stephen Fleming

    20 25.32%
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 128

Thread: Rate the captains

  1. #61
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cover point
    Posts
    11,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Twose and Allot in their prime were right up there. Good old Chris Harris as well. Perhaps Taylor but he didn't captain him much. Styris would roughly equal Astle. They're the only ones I can think of that she might be reffering to.
    With all due respect to Twose,Allott, Styris and Harris, they would hardly be considered some of the great world ODI players of their time. Allott had one outstanding 99 world cup, Styris was decidely average until around 2003 and Twose was a very good ODI batsmen for a period of around 2-3 years max, but hardly a great of the game. Finally Chris Harris was an exceedingly useful cricketer who got a lot more out of himself than his natural talent would suggest but again he was hardly one of the great ODI players of his time.

  2. #62
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cover point
    Posts
    11,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Twose and Allot in their prime were right up there. Good old Chris Harris as well. Perhaps Taylor but he didn't captain him much. Styris would roughly equal Astle. They're the only ones I can think of that she might be reffering to.
    To sum it up only Bond and Cairns would have been consistently good enough to be a regulars in the Australian ODI side in the last 5-10 years and possibly Vettori in the last couple of years since Warne retired.

  3. #63
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ksfls;fsl;lsFJg/s
    Posts
    28,489
    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12 View Post
    With all due respect to Twose,Allott, Styris and Harris, they would hardly be considered some of the great world ODI players of their time. Allott had one outstanding 99 world cup, Styris was decidely average until around 2003 and Twose was a very good ODI batsmen for a period of around 2-3 years max, but hardly a great of the game. Finally Chris Harris was an exceedingly useful cricketer who got a lot more out of himself than his natural talent would suggest but again he was hardly one of the great ODI players of his time.
    Yeah I know. I'm just throwing some names out of who she may be talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
    Proudly supporting Central Districts
    RIP Craig Walsh

  4. #64
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Dunedin, Otago, New Zealand
    Posts
    19,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Twose and Allot in their prime were right up there. Good old Chris Harris as well. Perhaps Taylor but he didn't captain him much. Styris would roughly equal Astle. They're the only ones I can think of that she might be reffering to.
    No, he doesn't.
    President of SKAS - Kat is King | Proud member of CVAAS - One of the best | LRPLTAS - Rosco rocks!
    The NZTailender Supporting XI:
    H Rutherford, T Latham, N Broom, M Bracewell, D Brownlie, BJ Watling, D de Boorder+, M Henry, B Wheeler, H Bennett, A Milne
    Go Tigers!
    R.I.P. Fardin & Craig


  5. #65
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12 View Post
    To sum it up only Bond and Cairns would have been consistently good enough to be a regulars in the Australian ODI side in the last 5-10 years and possibly Vettori in the last couple of years since Warne retired.
    Vettori > Warne for much of the time Vettori has been a good ODI bowler (ie, about 2000 or so onwards). And obviously more of that time than not now features Warne in retirement.
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006

  6. #66
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
    Eggs Champion!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my ass @ the PC
    Posts
    2,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Bradman was never thought to have been a particularly outstanding captain, merely adaquete and of course a phenomenal batsman;
    I would be interested to know where you heard that. All the objective evidence points to Bradman being a quite superb captain - he never lost a series as captain, has one of the highest winning percentages of any captain in history, is the only captain to win a 5 match test series having been 2-0 down at one stage, and managed to guide his team through an entire Ashes tour without a single defeat, a quite unparalleled achievement. Obviously having himself in the side would have helped, but I don't think one can ignore this immense weight of evidence.

    To quote Bill Brown "Don was the best tactical captain I ever played under, he new all about the opposition batsmen and placed his field accordingly, he remembered things that happened in previous matches, when the new ball was due the bowlers were rested and ready, I'd say he just never missed a trick in the field."
    THE ULTIMATE CRICKET WEB ARCADE EGGS CHAMPION

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1990-2006
    RIP Craig Walsh (AKA "Craig"), 1985-2012

  7. #67
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
    Eggs Champion!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my ass @ the PC
    Posts
    2,815
    You provide us with the opportunity to select one of the very worst captains in history, an arrogant, overbearing and unreliable man who lost every series as captain at a time when England were blessed with some of the best resources of natural talent in their history. What's more, he is chosen at the expense of a contemporary who inspired England to lift the the Ashes for the first time in years having lost the previous three series under MacLaren's captaincy.

    According to Plum Warner, MacLaren was a pessimistic captain who considered himself beaten before the match even began, and was prone to be critical rather than constructive when things were going badly. MacLaren's biographer Michael Down concluded "He was too inflexible to suit everyone who played under him."

    Also, he made his fair share of selectoral mistakes, most notably the omission of a fast bowler at The Oval in 1909.

    Furthermore, Monty Noble remarked "If there was a weakness in his general method of attack it was a tendency to give his stock bowler too long a spell at the crease." The most striking example of this was his merciless use of Barnes in 1901-02, who, having won the first Test with a marvellous performance, broke down in the second after being bowled down to the ground and could not play in the final three tests of the series. England lost the last three tests comfortably.

    Finally, everything in MacLaren's manor radiated supriority, and he regularly made his team mates feel inferior and uncomfortable. To quote C.B. Fry, MacLaren was "an iron and joyless captain... under him you entered every game bowed down with the hurculean labour of a cricket match against Australia; you were as in a trance to your doom."

  8. #68
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Vettori > Warne for much of the time Vettori has been a good ODI bowler (ie, about 2000 or so onwards). And obviously more of that time than not now features Warne in retirement.
    WTF? . A new entry into Richard's Hall of All-Time Whoppers.
    ★★★★★

  9. #69
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
    Eggs Champion!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my ass @ the PC
    Posts
    2,815
    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra View Post
    You provide us with the opportunity to select one of the very worst captains in history, an arrogant, overbearing and unreliable man who lost every series as captain at a time when England were blessed with some of the best resources of natural talent in their history. What's more, he is chosen at the expense of a contemporary who inspired England to lift the the Ashes for the first time in years having lost the previous three series under MacLaren's captaincy.

    According to Plum Warner, MacLaren was a pessimistic captain who considered himself beaten before the match even began, and was prone to be critical rather than constructive when things were going badly. MacLaren's biographer Michael Down concluded "He was too inflexible to suit everyone who played under him."

    Also, he made his fair share of selectoral mistakes, most notably the omission of a fast bowler at The Oval in 1909.

    Furthermore, Monty Noble remarked "If there was a weakness in his general method of attack it was a tendency to give his stock bowler too long a spell at the crease." The most striking example of this was his merciless use of Barnes in 1901-02, who, having won the first Test with a marvellous performance, broke down in the second after being bowled down to the ground and could not play in the final three tests of the series. England lost the last three tests comfortably.

    Finally, everything in MacLaren's manor radiated supriority, and he regularly made his team mates feel inferior and uncomfortable. To quote C.B. Fry, MacLaren was "an iron and joyless captain... under him you entered every game bowed down with the hurculean labour of a cricket match against Australia; you were as in a trance to your doom."
    Deepest apologies to the excellent cricketweb poster Archie Mac.

  10. #70
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
    Duck Hunt Champion! Plops Champion!
    Tournaments Won: 2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    ksfls;fsl:lsFJg/s
    Posts
    27,506
    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic View Post
    WTF? . A new entry into Richard's Hall of All-Time Whoppers.
    He's referring to ODI bowling while Vettori was in his prime so it's a fair statement.
    Direbirds FTW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Wellington will win the whole thing next year. Mark my words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    I'll offer up my avatar to Athlai forever if Wellington wins the Champions League.
    President of T.I.T.S
    Tamim Is Talented Society

  11. #71
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by KaZoH0lic View Post
    WTF? . A new entry into Richard's Hall of All-Time Whoppers.
    I wonder if you even read the post before taking a seeming chance to jump on something else.

  12. #72
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ksfls;fsl;lsFJg/s
    Posts
    28,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I wonder if you even read the post before taking a seeming chance to jump on something else.
    Remembering of course that no one can possibly be better than an Australian, or have I mixed him up with SST?

  13. #73
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra View Post
    I would be interested to know where you heard that. All the objective evidence points to Bradman being a quite superb captain - he never lost a series as captain, has one of the highest winning percentages of any captain in history, is the only captain to win a 5 match test series having been 2-0 down at one stage, and managed to guide his team through an entire Ashes tour without a single defeat, a quite unparalleled achievement. Obviously having himself in the side would have helped, but I don't think one can ignore this immense weight of evidence.

    To quote Bill Brown "Don was the best tactical captain I ever played under, he new all about the opposition batsmen and placed his field accordingly, he remembered things that happened in previous matches, when the new ball was due the bowlers were rested and ready, I'd say he just never missed a trick in the field."
    Of the results, I'm aware but not, as I said earlier in the thread, particularly interested. Good teams, not good captains, get good results. Brown's comment is more something of significance, but he's the first person I've ever heard talk of Bradman as a tactically skillful captain. I've honestly never read anything along those lines before. Everyone, but everyone, speaks in higher terms of his predecessor, Woodfull, and his successor, Hassett.

    And there's also, of course, the issue that both (and Benaud, and several others) were more skillful unifying operators. With the likes of Fingleton and O'Reilly (and they were by no means the only ones) Bradman's teams often had a rift running through them, as would later be the case with Stephen Waugh \ Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne. Woodfull and Hassett were much more skilled at being all things to all men.

  14. #74
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    He's referring to ODI bowling while Vettori was in his prime so it's a fair statement.
    Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought he was comparing both in ODI post-2000. Even then, Vettori is still behind. Maybe at some point when Warne was at his worst and Vettori at his best Vettori was better than Warne. But generally and, even post-2000, Warne has been the better ODI bowler.

    Warne post-2000, Vettori post-2000.
    Last edited by Ikki; 27-04-2008 at 04:33 AM.

  15. #75
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Of the results, I'm aware but not, as I said earlier in the thread, particularly interested. Good teams, not good captains, get good results. Brown's comment is more something of significance, but he's the first person I've ever heard talk of Bradman as a tactically skillful captain. I've honestly never read anything along those lines before. Everyone, but everyone, speaks in higher terms of his predecessor, Woodfull, and his successor, Hassett.

    And there's also, of course, the issue that both (and Benaud, and several others) were more skillful unifying operators. With the likes of Fingleton and O'Reilly (and they were by no means the only ones) Bradman's teams often had a rift running through them, as would later be the case with Stephen Waugh \ Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne. Woodfull and Hassett were much more skilled at being all things to all men.
    Well, if they had a rift it never showed up in a match and that is what matters. To be successful and to control men with the stature of Warne or Miller is a much different and difficult task.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Best ODI Captains
    By southafrica in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 25-03-2007, 05:52 PM
  2. Captains !!!!!!!!!!!
    By biased indian in forum World Cup 2007
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-03-2007, 03:26 AM
  3. Captains...
    By LA ICE-E in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 27-11-2006, 10:44 PM
  4. Your captains
    By SirBloody Idiot in forum General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 21-02-2004, 04:32 PM
  5. Strike rate v Economy rate.
    By Graham in forum World Club Cricket
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 29-11-2003, 06:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •