View Poll Results: Best Test match captain?

Voters
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  • Archie McLaren

    0 0%
  • Warwick Armstrong

    1 1.27%
  • Bill Woodfull

    0 0%
  • Douglas Jardine

    6 7.59%
  • Frank Worrell

    1 1.27%
  • Richie Benaud

    10 12.66%
  • Raymond Illingworth

    1 1.27%
  • Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi

    0 0%
  • Ian Chappell

    4 5.06%
  • Mike Brearley

    9 11.39%
  • Imran Khan

    12 15.19%
  • Allan Border

    3 3.80%
  • Arjuna Ranatunga

    5 6.33%
  • Mark Taylor

    7 8.86%
  • Stephen Fleming

    20 25.32%
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Thread: Rate the captains

  1. #16
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Suggestions to someone to create a worst captain poll.

  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Don't really see the point TBH, you could name Joe Higgins who once captained Village Specials XI there.

    By-and-large, if you have a lengthy spell as a Test captain, you can't be bad.
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  3. #18
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaelf7777777 View Post
    Although I think you are being quite harsh on some other captains including Sir Donald Bradman, Lindsay Hassett and Herbie Collins by not including them in the poll.
    Bradman was never thought to have been a particularly outstanding captain, merely adaquete and of course a phenomenal batsman; Collins I know little to nothing about as his time was before the 1930s and I only know bits and pieces there (hence McLaren); and Hassett I did consider, but while he did a good job I don't think he's up with the very best.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    No Close ?
    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    There ia a lovely book called The Great Captains - edited by Arlott and first published in 1971.

    It lists (in order of their respective careers)

    1. Mclaren
    2. Warner
    3. Jardine
    4. Sellers
    5. Wooller
    6. Surridge
    7. Cheetham
    8. Worrell


    Those in red are missing from our poll - one presumes because almost all of them (barring South African Cheetham) made a name for themselves as captains basically in domestic cricket.

    To the list of great captains outside test cricket, post 1970, one could add Clive Rice and ML Jaisimha.
    Pelham Warner I could have included I suppose, but I didn't think there a lot of point in mentioning the likes of Close, Sellers, Surridge or Rice because few on this board have read enough of historical domestic cricket to know much of their skill. I myself don't know that much. I thought it best to keep it to those who have achieved notable deeds at international level.

    Cheetham is an interesting one, though. I wonder, sometimes, about a Cheetham vs Bacher poll, and whether anyone would even post.

  4. #19
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    Flem led teams chock full of pie chuckers and number 11 batsmen masquerading as our top order, and still did well.

    I'm a big Steve Waugh fan, but looks like he didn't make the poll.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    No - as I said in the opening post, I rate Stephen Waugh's captaincy as no more than adaquete. Certainly not close to the level of those in this poll - it didn't need to be.

    And really, it's a myth that Fleming's teams did well when they truly were awful. No captain can do that, however good. New Zealand did well when they had good and decent players with them, but Fleming always made the most of whatever it was he had.

  6. #21
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    I'm not sure that this poll has much point to it as it's too self indulgent. Surely the idea of a poll is to guage opinion. To omit four of the most successful captains of all time - Waugh-Ponting-Richards-Lloyd - doesn't make much sense. Some people do rate them and they would receive a lot of votes. All that's being rated here are the one's that the OP thinks are worthy, which is not proving anything and is of minimal interest.

  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It's of interest to me. If people wish to refuse to vote because they think Lloyd, Waugh or whoever was more worthy than any, that's up to them.

    I'm not interested in seeing who's of the opinion that Stephen Waugh was the greatest captain ever, I'm more than aware of the consensus on that already. I am interested in seeing some discussion of others, particularly those included in the poll.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    No Close ?
    Close.

    But no cigar.

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  9. #24
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    Voted Flem, only one I remember watching. (think Taylor retired just before I started watching)

    I've heard that Brearley was a very good captain (but a hopeless bat).

    Have heard of most of the options and what they did as captain. Just never saw them in action.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutter View Post
    Flem led teams chock full of pie chuckers and number 11 batsmen masquerading as our top order, and still did well.

    I'm a big Steve Waugh fan, but looks like he didn't make the poll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    No - as I said in the opening post, I rate Stephen Waugh's captaincy as no more than adaquete. Certainly not close to the level of those in this poll - it didn't need to be.

    And really, it's a myth that Fleming's teams did well when they truly were awful. No captain can do that, however good. New Zealand did well when they had good and decent players with them, but Fleming always made the most of whatever it was he had.
    I'd put it somewhere between the two. Fleming has done well with teams that have included say, 9 good players and a couple of crappies. A few years back if we lost 4 players through injury good old Tama Canning, Iain O'Brien, Lance Hamilton, Mathew Bell etc would pop up. Thank God that now at least we have inexperienced talent (mixed with some crap of course), rather than just inexperienced rubbish.
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  11. #26
    International Debutant Briony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Voted for Fleming due to him being the best in my lifetime, and captaincy is such a hard thing to truly appreciate through the history books.
    Where is the proof that Fleming was a great captain or is it a myth which gets perpetuated? Statistically his record isn't great. Bear in mind he captained NZ which isn't the strongest of cricketing nations but even his limited overs record is not flash yet he was in command of some very good ODI players.

  12. #27
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briony View Post
    Where is the proof that Fleming was a great captain or is it a myth which gets perpetuated? Statistically his record isn't great. Bear in mind he captained NZ which isn't the strongest of cricketing nations but even his limited overs record is not flash yet he was in command of some very good ODI players.
    Command of some very good ODI players, most of whom (mainly bowlers, with some batsmen) got injured constantly and then some rabble surrounding those good players, or is Matt Bell a good batsman now?

  13. #28
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Bradman was never thought to have been a particularly outstanding captain, merely adaquete and of course a phenomenal batsman; Collins I know little to nothing about as his time was before the 1930s and I only know bits and pieces there (hence McLaren); and Hassett I did consider, but while he did a good job I don't think he's up with the very best.


    Pelham Warner I could have included I suppose, but I didn't think there a lot of point in mentioning the likes of Close, Sellers, Surridge or Rice because few on this board have read enough of historical domestic cricket to know much of their skill. I myself don't know that much. I thought it best to keep it to those who have achieved notable deeds at international level.

    Cheetham is an interesting one, though. I wonder, sometimes, about a Cheetham vs Bacher poll, and whether anyone would even post.
    Agreed

  14. #29
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    Voted Fleming.

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  15. #30
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Don't really see the point TBH, you could name Joe Higgins who once captained Village Specials XI there.

    By-and-large, if you have a lengthy spell as a Test captain, you can't be bad.
    Really? Not exactly sure how long they were captains but Bothan, Tendulkar, Pollock, Hughes and so on where good players in there own right, but once captain, they and there teams suffered.

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