Ricky Ponting vs. Brian Lara

[silentstriker]

To keep the recent trend of polls up, I though I'd start another one. This is an off shoot of the earlier one.

 

[Jono]

Please no one vote Silentstriker in the poll. Would love seeing that option selected only by SS himself

 

[silentstriker]

Please no one vote Silentstriker in the poll. Would love seeing that option selected only by SS himself

Voted Brian Lara. It's close between me and him but I think he might just have the edge at scoring doubles.

 

[Ikki]

Ponting.

Simply a better scorer all-round and against everyone. For all the mention that Ponting does much better at home, he averages 51 away. Lara averages 58 at home and 47 away. Ponting has played 15 Tests less and only has 9 50s less in comparison to Brian's 50s/100s.

The gap between them is noticable and if trend is anything to go by it will increase. Simply, put, Ponting is on course to hold most batting records bar average, and he's done it at an incredible rate.

 

[silentstriker]

Ponting.

Simply a better scorer all-round and against everyone. For all the mention that Ponting does much better at home, he averages 51 away. Lara averages 58 at home and 47 away. Ponting has played 15 Tests less and only has 9 50s less in comparison to Brian's 50s/100s.

The gap between them is noticable and if trend is anything to go by it will increase. Simply, put, Ponting is on course to hold most batting records bar average, and he's done it at an incredible rate.

I think Dravid averages 58 away and 50 at home. Kallis, amazingly, averages 57 away and 57 at home. Would you say they are better? Kallis has played two more Tests and has eight more fifties and three less centuries.

Using all the criteria you mentioned, you could easily make a case for Dravid and Kallis over Ponting (I think Ponting is better than both, but by your criteria...)

 

[Ikki]

I think Dravid averages 58 away and 50 at home. Kallis, amazingly, averages 57 away and 57 at home. Would you say they are better? Kallis has played two more Tests and has eight more fifties and three less centuries.

Using all the criteria you mentioned, you could easily make a case for Dravid and Kallis over Ponting (I think Ponting is better than both, but by your criteria...)

No, that isn't my criteria as to why Ponting is better. There are many reasons to list. I just put that in becuse in the Richards V Tendulkar thread it was mentioned.

Actually, their away records are heavily influenced by Bang/Zim - take them out and things look more accurate IMO. Whilst Dravid is seriously one of the great away players of all time, his home record is 46. Kallis' recorded is heavily inflated by Bang/Zim. He drops from 57 to 51-52 disregarding those figures. It's also ideal to look at how many times they played against each opposition away. Also, if you add Ponting's games on neutral grounds, on the reason that it was not home, to his away record then he overtakes Kallis just slightly here too.

But again, it's not that single criteria that splits them. Well, at least in my opinion.

 

[GIMH]

Please no one vote Silentstriker in the poll. Would love seeing that option selected only by SS himself

Dammit, sorry Jono voted then scrolled down

 

[Googenheim]

So Dravid gets censured for averaging 46 at home? Damned as a privileged flat track bully if an Indian averages 50+ at home, and damned as a poor batsman if he averages 46 at home. Also scary to imagine how much better Kallis the batsman would have been if he hadn't had to bowl for a huge part of his career.


Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Both Lara and Ponting adept at cashing in on flat tracks at home. Can't make a just comparison until Ponting reveals the course of his twilight years.

 

[silentstriker]

So Dravid gets censured for averaging 46 at home? Damned as a privileged flat track bully if an Indian averages 50+ at home, and damned as a poor batsman if he averages 46 at home.

I find that funny too. I still think Ponting is better than Dravid though - and I think a whole level better, but I don't really care about his home average. It's still a very good average and we have plenty of FTB's who'll cash in at home.

 

[Ikki]

I find that funny too. I still think Ponting is better than Dravid though - and I think a whole level better, but I don't really care about his home average. It's still a very good average and we have plenty of FTB's who'll cash in at home.

To average 46 at home, regardless where home is, for this calibre of player is not strong. Would you agree?

 

[PhoenixFire]

To average 46 at home, regardless where home is, for this calibre of player is not strong. Would you agree?

Nah, that's a bit harsh. 46 is a good average anywhere, just not an amazing one.

 

[Ikki]

Nah, that's a bit harsh. 46 is a good average anywhere, just not an amazing one.

Yes, but that's the whole point, we're comparing the absolute best of the past 10+ years. To simply have a good average like 46 is weaker in comparison to his contemporaries. Just as a simple comparison against one of your comtemporaries against a certain opposition it is not flattering; but to have that as your home record, where you play about half your games, is even less flattering.

 

[silentstriker]

To average 46 at home, regardless where home is, for this calibre of player is not strong. Would you agree?

No, its not a great average, of course. But to me, it doesn't matter as we have enough FTBs. But as I said, Ponting is better, even though his away record is less than Dravid because the sheer weight of his runs in a lot of places is hard to ignore, especially at home. And Ponting has a good average away too, just not as good as Dravid's or someone like that. Though I find it interesting that Dravid's home score averages about 5 less than Ponting's away, and Ponting's away score is about 5 less than Dravid's home. Though obviously, in Australia, Ponting is an amazing batsman.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Yes, but that's the whole point, we're comparing the absolute best of the past 10+ years. To simply have a good average like 46 is weaker in comparison to his contemporaries. Just as a simple comparison against one of your comtemporaries against a certain opposition it is not flattering; but to have that as your home record, where you play about half your games, is even less flattering.

Can't argue with this itbt.

 

[silentstriker]

Just as a simple comparison against one of your comtemporaries against a certain opposition it is not flattering; but to have that as your home record, where you play about half your games, is even less flattering.

For the record, Dravid has only played 42% of his games at home, and 58% away.

 

[Ikki]

For the record, Dravid has only played 42% of his games at home, and 58% away.

Hence "about half". And generally, it is "about half" for most players to play at home. Some a bit more, some a bit less, but round about half - huge sample.

 

[silentstriker]

Hence "about half". And generally, it is "about half" for most players to play at home. Some a bit more, some a bit less, but round about half - huge sample.

I didn't disagree with you, I just wanted to point out he has played about 18-20 more Tests away .

 

[Ikki]

I didn't disagree with you, I just wanted to point out he has played about 18-20 more Tests away .

That's probably why his overall average is an impressive 55 - he's made up for it away.

Actually, one may make the argument that whilst India has always had players performing at home - hence less important - his away form is what sets him clear as very few Indians have done as well away, and hence he was there when his team needed him most.

 

[silentstriker]

Actually, one may make the argument that whilst India has always had players performing at home - hence less important - his away form is what sets him clear as very few Indians have done as well away, and hence he was there when his team needed him most.

No, its not a great average, of course. But to me, it doesn't matter as we have enough FTBs.

I agree.

 

[R_D]

Lara easily for me again.... not even a contest.