All hail Dale Steyn

[Craig]

As he becomes joint number 1 bowler in the world with Murali

Rankings here as we salute Dan Vettori as the no.1 ODI bowler

There you go. I'm not sure how much notice you take in them or not, but by just watching cricket alone (forget stats etc.) and in particular the Australian cricket summer, you would say Brett Lee is the best fast bowler in the world in both forms. If he isn't then he did bowl pretty darn well IMO.

So it is official Dale Steyn > Brett Lee in the rankings but by watching cricket live Lee > everybody else.

[cpr]

CAnt argue with the fact Steyn has been mightily effective for South Africa (though i dont like the guy, the fact he's one day younger than me makes me feel i've not achieved as much as i could in my years, blows my 'i'm still young' argument out of the water)

In other news, Sidebottom is in the top 10, thus ending the effective stage of his international career, only another 40 tests before the selectors realise mind.

[Richard]

Steyn and Lee are both irresistable at the moment, and given the rankings are nothing more than a form-guide, not a ranking of "who's best", 'tis fair noof.

Steyn and Lee's cases aren't directly comparable, as Steyn had a shocking start then became rather sensational; Lee was sensational from his very first game. And Steyn's now played a fair few more than Lee did in his short sensational start. But nonetheless, hopefully Steyn can go on something like this through his career, and end-up a far better Test bowler than Lee.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by cpr

CAnt argue with the fact Steyn has been mightily effective for South Africa (though i dont like the guy, the fact he's one day younger than me makes me feel i've not achieved as much as i could in my years, blows my 'i'm still young' argument out of the water)

I had that exact feeling the first time (2004) I watched u19s and thought "this is my age now WTF?" There's now a fair few players regularly playing international cricket (Rudra Pratap Singh was the first IIRR) who are younger than me.

'Tis a sobering feeling when "established" (at whatever level) cricketers start being younger than you.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Richard

Steyn and Lee's cases aren't directly comparable, as Steyn had a shocking start then became rather sensational;

Steyn was more 'raw' than 'shocking' at the start of his career - the talent was always there and was quite evident.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Richard

I had that exact feeling the first time (2004) I watched u19s and thought "this is my age now WTF?" There's now a fair few players regularly playing international cricket (Rudra Pratap Singh was the first IIRR) who are younger than me.

'Tis a sobering feeling when "established" (at whatever level) cricketers start being younger than you.

Felt like that when watching Cook get his first ton, like I am supposed to be admiring these fellas, but there I am cheering "go on son" (lol).

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Manee

Steyn was more 'raw' than 'shocking' at the start of his career - the talent was always there and was quite evident.

The two aren't mutual-exclusives, though - Steyn was clearly far below the required standard and had any of the several better candidates played in that series against England SA would probably have had a better chance in those 3 Tests.

While the potential was obvious, it's not a given, at all, that potential like that will be enacted-upon.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by Richard

I had that exact feeling the first time (2004) I watched u19s and thought "this is my age now WTF?" There's now a fair few players regularly playing international cricket (Rudra Pratap Singh was the first IIRR) who are younger than me.

'Tis a sobering feeling when "established" (at whatever level) cricketers start being younger than you.

I remember it well - the first England player to be younger than me was Norman Cowans. Mind you, what'e even worse is getting to the point when you realise there won't be any more older than you. I think Emburey was the last one for me, when he was brought back yet again against WI in 1995.

As for youg Steyn, I think I'll be hiding behind the sofa when he runs in to (and through) our fragile top order this summer.

[Nishant]

i still reckon that Lee > steyn....simply by watching....although i must say, steyn is definitely in prime form and extremely effective for SA ATM....definitely one for the future.

[Manee]

I believe that the illusion that Lee>Steyn is caused by the fact that Lee has played on quicker, bouncier pitches this season, which cause a bowler to 'look good' whereas Steyn has been pitching it up on Asian pitches as well as bossing New Zealand batsmen who have never done well against pace.

[Nishant]

Originally Posted by Manee

I believe that the illusion that Lee>Steyn is caused by the fact that Lee has played on quicker, bouncier pitches this season, which cause a bowler to 'look good' whereas Steyn has been pitching it up on Asian pitches as well as bossing New Zealand batsmen who have never done well against pace.

Fair enough...that probably is true....maybe its just necessary to see Steyn perform on different pitches but more importantly, against better opposition.

[Manee]

Perhaps. One thing I have noticed about Steyn is that he gets a disproportionate amount of his wickets against right handed batsman. Being expert at cleaning up the tail is one thing, but he may have a problem against the left handed batsman...

...or it could be nothing and I have just happened to miss his wickets against left handers.

[Nishant]

Originally Posted by Manee

Perhaps. One thing I have noticed about Steyn is that he gets a disproportionate amount of his wickets against right handed batsman. Being expert at cleaning up the tail is one thing, but he may have a problem against the left handed batsman...

...or it could be nothing and I have just happened to miss his wickets against left handers.

dunno abt that...ive never really noticed that trend tbh.....but his ability to clena up the tail is one thing...but a good opening bowler should have the ability to pick up wickets of the top-order. Ive only seen him do it once against the imcompetant india line up in the 1st innings...but in the 2nd, he wasnt able to when the pitch lost a little zip. Has the majority of steyn's wickets been of tail enders?

[FBU]

Originally Posted by Nishant

dunno abt that...ive never really noticed that trend tbh.....but his ability to clena up the tail is one thing...but a good opening bowler should have the ability to pick up wickets of the top-order. Ive only seen him do it once against the imcompetant india line up in the 1st innings...but in the 2nd, he wasnt able to when the pitch lost a little zip. Has the majority of steyn's wickets been of tail enders?

Top order - 31.6%
Middle order - 33.3%
Tail - 35%

Vaas and McGrath got 41.6% and 40% of the top order.

LH batsmen - 25.64%
RH batsmen - 74.35%

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Nishant

Fair enough...that probably is true....maybe its just necessary to see Steyn perform on different pitches but more importantly, against better opposition.

TBH, even though there's been no Tendulkar involved in the last two Tests, he's unlikely to get opposition a hell of a lot stronger than India.

Certainly don't see England, for instance, coming close to India's skills with the bat.