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Thread: All hail Dale Steyn

  1. #31
    State Captain Nishant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBU View Post
    Top order - 31.6%
    Middle order - 33.3%
    Tail - 35%

    Vaas and McGrath got 41.6% and 40% of the top order.

    LH batsmen - 25.64%
    RH batsmen - 74.35%
    very good work there mate!!! Thanks for the stats!

  2. #32
    State Captain Nishant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gettingbetter View Post
    * Of late it has been only in the ODI format. I do wonder if Kathik would do a better job.
    That definitely a debate that used to go on some time back....but one that still has a bit of spark to it IMO....Tbh..im all for Dhoni...i like the way he bats and he has become a lot more responsible these days ( i still remember the way he got out in the 2nd innings of the 3rd test in Mumbai against england in 2006!!)...but Kartik may be a 'safer' option at no.6...but of course, as i said, this is very much open to debate.

  3. #33
    State Captain Nishant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Morkel remains thoroughly unconvincing so far - but so did Steyn early in his career. Of course, just because one went from poor to excellent doesn't mean another neccessarily will, but Mørkel undoubtedly like Steyn has assets - in his case, great height rather than an excellent seam-position and speed.

    Morkel needs to both gain some extra control and find a way to move the ball away from the right-hander, and if he can do that he'll be one hell of a proposition.
    completely agree!

  4. #34
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Morkel remains thoroughly unconvincing so far - but so did Steyn early in his career. Of course, just because one went from poor to excellent doesn't mean another neccessarily will, but Mørkel undoubtedly like Steyn has assets - in his case, great height rather than an excellent seam-position and speed.

    Morkel needs to both gain some extra control and find a way to move the ball away from the right-hander, and if he can do that he'll be one hell of a proposition.
    Morkel has only displayed potential so far, obviously. He has a long way to go before we can start putting him anywhere near the bracket of Brett Lee. It is now a case of if he can convert that potential and make best use of all his natural attributes to consistently trouble the finest batsmen in the world.


  5. #35
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    Career wise... Lee > Steyn.. Only becasue hes been around longer.

    Current form??
    Steyn > Lee.

    And, steyn hasnt bowled against quality batsmen? WTF is that all about, Hes demolished NZ, WI, PAK, And now India... Whos left in regards to Quality Batsmen?? Not england... ONly Aus... and on that note... LEE DOESNT BOWL AGAINST AUS... which is his greatest advantage.

    Lee did well against India... IN AUS....
    Steyn is doing well against india in india...

    Steyn wasnt good when he started his career?? Damn... He was a 20 year old, pulled out of first class cricket after something like 7 games... He hadnt even grown into his body...
    And he was the most threatening bowler in that SA england series.... Sure he bowled some wayward deliveries... but HIs Deliveries to vaughn, The first time he got his patented off stump cartwheeling delivery, was identical to dravid...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im0NodxUeKU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jUiUsKZtOg


    And To Trethscotich (gawd damn thats a butchery of the spelling) with the inswinger to the left hander, showed his class...

    Steyn can be a bit erratic, but usually when he goes for runs, its because the batsmen are edging through hte slips / gulley etc... LOTS of runs against steyn go there... then he will try too hard and bowl a bad ball..

    The greatest thing about steyn is though, he can be having a bad game (Ie the latest test, he was bowling a shower of s**t) to start, but you know, the next time he gets a spell, hes likely to get 3 or 4 wickets in it... He has done it every test so far...

    And looking at that average of who he gets out... its pretty even, 1/3 of his wickets come from the top, mid, and lower order... Which means hes doing the job at all stages of hte game, Crucial in a test match.. being hte opening overs, the reverse swing when the batsmen tend to dominate, and the mopping up of the tail (which lee couldnt do against India in oz)

    All in all, Steyn is a scary bowler to face, not becasue he is fast, which he is, but becasue of the movement he gets at all times, Late away swing in the mid 140;s to open, and reverse inswingers in the high 130s when the ball is old...

    Anyone who has played on SA , and/or aus tracks, knows, that a guy bowling 145, and moving it like Steyn, is > than a guy bowing at 150, and is pretty much straight IE Lee/johnson.
    Look at this comparison for world rankings on bowlers... while stats dont show everything.. this shows alot...

    http://www.lgiccrankings.com/test/pl...2&type=Compare

    Lee broke the 750 point barrier after 8 years in intarnational cricket...
    Steyn?? 3 years

    Re Morkel... He bowls it easily in the 150;s, but until he learns to get the ball coming out with the seam perfect like steyn, he will only be good..not great...
    Last edited by Termanati; 09-04-2008 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #36
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    I don't necessarily disagree with Steyn being in better form but the below is simplistic;

    Quote Originally Posted by Termanati View Post
    And, steyn hasnt bowled against quality batsmen? WTF is that all about, Hes demolished NZ, WI, PAK,
    All pretty ordinary batting line-ups right now, at home or away. Their records in the last 5 years prove it. When was the last time any of them won a series on the back of their batting against even a mid-table team?

    Quote Originally Posted by Termanati View Post
    And now India...
    In one Test played on a very advantageous deck where Ntini took the big wickets and Steyn cleaned up the tail (which he did well, let's not take too much away from him). He bowled okay in the first Test after an ordinary start, though. In Australia, there were nothing but pancake flat decks all summer and Lee was at the very least threatening on each of them. He took a bundle of wickets, yes, but he didn't take them in hauls of 6 or 7; he spread them out over the whole summer. Every time he had the ball in hand, he was a handful to face against a batting line-up which had an in-form Tendulkar, Ganguly (before that series) and Laxman on pitches which absolutely suited them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Termanati View Post
    Anyone who has played on SA , and/or aus tracks, knows, that a guy bowling 145, and moving it like Steyn, is > than a guy bowing at 150, and is pretty much straight IE Lee/johnson.
    So you didn't see Lee bowl then? Was far from straight up-and-down. Johnson was a bit samey at times but Lee, far from it.

  7. #37
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    One of the best batsmen of the modern era doesn't say anything about current form. And Dhoni has never been all that good in Tests, as you mention. Sehwag is always hot and cold, and while Jaffer has been solid in India, there is no way he can last against anyone who has pace or if the pitch assists them.

    Considering the pitch in the first Test, it is pretty irrelevent what people scored. Scoring 70 on that pitch is not really a plus - you'd back most FC batsmen to have a great shot at a 50+ score.
    Can't get any more current than the last Test he played where he did score a hundred.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Undoubtedly, Strauss > Jaffer over their careers, but from the start of 2006 he's been next to useless, and as bad as if not worse than Jaffer.
    Strauss = walking advert for the old maxim "Never muck around with good form". Coming into the Ashes summer hee last year, he was in spanking form - looked a million bucks. Gets to Brisbane, 2 poor pull shots, then the demons came in from there on in. Was remarkable watching it happen at the time.
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  9. #39
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Add to the fact that he wasn't, but should of been captain.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Strauss = walking advert for the old maxim "Never muck around with good form". Coming into the Ashes summer hee last year, he was in spanking form - looked a million bucks. Gets to Brisbane, 2 poor pull shots, then the demons came in from there on in. Was remarkable watching it happen at the time.
    Amazing how quickly good form can leave you. Rick Ponting was the same going into the 2001 series against India yet he barely scored a run all series and didn't look like doing so.

  11. #41
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    A top class bowler and one, who if he remains injury free, I believe will be the world's best over the next decade. His outswingers are just wonderful to watch, and at a handy speed too. I can't really comment as to whether Lee is a better bowler than him, as I haven't seen any of Lee's bowling this summer. But given that Lee has a 7 year head start in terms of refining his game, Steyn's efforts still come off as being pretty impressive by comparison.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with Steyn being in better form but the below is simplistic;



    All pretty ordinary batting line-ups right now, at home or away. Their records in the last 5 years prove it. When was the last time any of them won a series on the back of their batting against even a mid-table team?



    In one Test played on a very advantageous deck where Ntini took the big wickets and Steyn cleaned up the tail (which he did well, let's not take too much away from him). He bowled okay in the first Test after an ordinary start, though. In Australia, there were nothing but pancake flat decks all summer and Lee was at the very least threatening on each of them. He took a bundle of wickets, yes, but he didn't take them in hauls of 6 or 7; he spread them out over the whole summer. Every time he had the ball in hand, he was a handful to face against a batting line-up which had an in-form Tendulkar, Ganguly (before that series) and Laxman on pitches which absolutely suited them.



    So you didn't see Lee bowl then? Was far from straight up-and-down. Johnson was a bit samey at times but Lee, far from it.



    You say Those batting attacks arnt that great right now...

    Well..I hate to inform you, but ive just listed Pretty much every current major side bar Sri lanka.... THese are hte teams, other bowlers are being measured against as well...

    Your arguing hes taking apart bad teams, thats why he isnt better than lee or whoever... yet, these are the only sides he has been able to play against, and those sides are the same every other bowler gets to bowl to as well... really..where your logic to that?

    This isnt the nhl..or nba where theres like, 30 teams to play against... this is international cricket, If i list 4 or 5 teams... thats pretty much, the top 5 teams to play against..

    And you say "apart from the first innings blabla" right.. apart from this or that or this..you can say that about any player.

    And dont tell me your trying to compare hte way lee bends the ball to the way Steyn does??

    Lee has lately found a bit of movemnt, but it nowhere near compares to steyn.
    Lee's advantage, is hes faster, bowling on aussie quick decks.And none of htem were remotely as flat as the first test.

    Also, south africas pitches arnt what they used to be, they are still faster than the subcontinent, and maby england.. but htey are alot slower now days. Its not like steyn is getting green tops in south africa. The 2nd test had more movement than all the tests in SA combined last year.

  13. #43
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    Not arguing against your post here, but tbf the wickets Lee bowled on v India this summer were very, very flat. The WACA was a massive disappointment, Melbourne's drop in pitches have removed all character from the decks there, Sydney was Sydney and Adelaide was a snooze fest from day 1.

  14. #44
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Termanati View Post
    Steyn wasnt good when he started his career?? Damn... He was a 20 year old, pulled out of first class cricket after something like 7 games... He hadnt even grown into his body...
    Was 21 TBH, but quite - few 21-year-olds are or would be up to international cricket. It was bad selection to pick him, and if he goes on to be a phenominal bowler for the next 10 years anyone with any sense will completely disregard those games when assessing him. But this doesn't mean he wasn't below-par.
    And he was the most threatening bowler in that SA england series.... Sure he bowled some wayward deliveries... but HIs Deliveries to vaughn, The first time he got his patented off stump cartwheeling delivery, was identical to dravid...
    There's no way he was the most threatening bowler that series. He bowled the best ball of it, beyond question, the Vaughan outswinger. And the ball that dismissed Trescothick in the First Test was a good one too. But there's no disputing that had Andre Nel - or, given he wasn't fit, someone like David Terbrugge or Charl Willoughby - played in that series, SA's chances would've been better.
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  15. #45
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Strauss = walking advert for the old maxim "Never muck around with good form". Coming into the Ashes summer hee last year, he was in spanking form - looked a million bucks. Gets to Brisbane, 2 poor pull shots, then the demons came in from there on in. Was remarkable watching it happen at the time.
    The thing is, the problems didn't start in The Ashes 2006/07. His form was very poor in India at the start of 2006, with the same problems over and again, and they continued in the next series at home to Sri Lanka in summer 2006. He got off the hook against Pakistan's third-string bowling-attack (frankly if you can't score runs off the likes of Mohammad Sami and Abdur Razzaq you need a big reality-check) but then after The Ashes couldn't even cash-in against a possibly even worse West Indies one. It's always the same, too - driving in the air on the off, something he hardly did any of in 2004 or 2005.
    Quote Originally Posted by gettingbetter View Post
    Add to the fact that he wasn't, but should of been captain.
    Don't believe that made any difference whatsoever TBH. In fact I wish he'd never got the captaincy for the Pakistan series ITFP, because then we'd never have this whole sorry supposition that not getting the captaincy was some form of mortal blow.

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