Richard Johnson for England?

[Bazza]

I just thought I'd put up a thread commenting on Richard Johnson's exellent start to the English county season. On a couple of occasions previously, he has come close to gaining selection for England, and I wondered if he might finally get the nod this summer when Zimbabwe tour.

What does everyone else think? I have included some stats to enhance the claim, as it were!

FC Career 3291.5 10467 399 26.23 10-45 15 3 49.5 3.17
2002 307.1 66 914 43 21.25 7-43 2 1 42.8 2.97
2001 463.2 89 1474 62 23.77 5-40 5 0 44.8 3.18
2000 473 129 1429 50 28.58 6-71 2 0 56.7 3.02
1999 133.3 30 453 16 28.31 4-50 - - 50.0 3.39
1998 377.2 77 1369 50 27.38 7-86 1 - 45.2 3.62

As you can see, he really is one of the most consistent performers around, and particularly in the last two years seems to have just gone up another notch. Couple that with his start to the 2003 season (15 wickets at 19 in the first three games, and as I write this he currently has 4-47 against Derbyshire - the first of which, Michael Di Venuto, is his 400th FC wicket - not to mention a maiden FC century!), and he has as good a claim as anyone to get a chance against Zimbabwe, which for me is a great chance to give some new players a go.

I feel with Gough not ready yet, Hoggard out of favour, Jones injured, and I'm not a fan of Harmison there could never be a better situation than to give someone like Richard Johnson (not old at 28) and James Anderson a crack at the big time. Caddick and Flintoff and Giles rounds off a more than capable attack, and if some of the players mentioned above don't get it back then he could be a good player, and for a fair few years. Look what WI lost by not giving Vasbert Drakes a run earlier.

 

[marc71178]

Personally I'd be very shocked if he did get a call up, expecting the attack for the First Test to be:

Anderson, Harmison, Hoggard/Caddick, Flintoff, Giles

 

[Langeveldt]

Err Marc did you say the "H" word? And i dont mean Hoggard :O


I think Johnson definitely deserves a call up, if he is genuinly needed and wont be thrown on the scrapheap immediatly

 

[Rik]

You can't say he doesn't deserve it. He's improved massively since joining Somerset and he did better than Ormond in India in a tour match yet Ormond was chosen to play in the Test and didn't make much of an impression. Johnson certainly is more deserving than Harmison who has yet to show he can actually bowl with any control whatsoever. Richard Johnson, Kevin Dean and Martin Saggers are all superb bowlers but yet we throw in people like Harmison into the Test Side on potential alone. Another unlucky name, who played a few Tests before he was really ready and has now become one of the best bowling all-rounders in the country, is Martin Bicknell, although on current form I think the years have caught up with him, he's looking a shadow of the Bickers who has been one of the main reasons for Surrey's success.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yes, he's deserving of it.

And leave Steve Harmison alone. Yeah, he shouldn't ever be let near an ODI ever again, but he's been one of the most impressive (and most economical) FIRST CLASS bowlers so fair in 2003.

 

[Langeveldt]

Yes, he's deserving of it.

And leave Steve Harmison alone. Yeah, he shouldn't ever be let near an ODI ever again, but he's been one of the most impressive (and most economical) FIRST CLASS bowlers so fair in 2003.

Is someone who should never be let near an ODI again capable of carrying Englands attack in a test match? I dont think so... Anyway sides like Australia are playing the game like everything is an ODI now anyway....

 

[Neil Pickup]

Is someone who should never be let near an ODI again capable of carrying Englands attack in a test match? I dont think so... Anyway sides like Australia are playing the game like everything is an ODI now anyway....

Given that ODIs and Tests are completely different forms of the game... and besides he's not carrying the attack. Mervyn Dillon carried the WI attack of late, Chaminda the SL pace attack etc.

And I think your last comment is a touch a) simplistic and b) irrelevant as Harmison's ODI problem is wides.

 

[Rik]

Yes, he's deserving of it.

And leave Steve Harmison alone. Yeah, he shouldn't ever be let near an ODI ever again, but he's been one of the most impressive (and most economical) FIRST CLASS bowlers so fair in 2003.

Economical? Maybe he's bowling so wide the batsmen can't reach the ball? :saint:

 

[Rik]

Given that ODIs and Tests are completely different forms of the game... and besides he's not carrying the attack. Mervyn Dillon carried the WI attack of late, Chaminda the SL pace attack etc.

And I think your last comment is a touch a) simplistic and b) irrelevant as Harmison's ODI problem is wides.

Maybe Neil you are forgetting that not only is accuracy needed in ODIs in order to get wickets, but it's the case in Tests too. If someone with a Test average in the mid-to-high 40s and an obvious inability to bowl straight deserves to be picked for his country in any form when there are other, much better qualified and obviously superior bowlers being left out at his expense then I wouldn't mind hearing it...

 

[Rich2001]

Maybe Neil you are forgetting that not only is accuracy needed in ODIs in order to get wickets, but it's the case in Tests too. If someone with a Test average in the mid-to-high 40s and an obvious inability to bowl straight deserves to be picked for his country in any form when there are other, much better qualified and obviously superior bowlers being left out at his expense then I wouldn't mind hearing it...

What I think Neil is saying is that the rules are less serve in Tests, therefore Harmison bowling a foot outside off can be a tactic of slowing the scoring (eg Giles in India etc) whereas the same line in ODI get given as wides.

 

[Rik]

What I think Neil is saying is that the rules are less serve in Tests, therefore Harmison bowling a foot outside off can be a tactic of slowing the scoring (eg Giles in India etc) whereas the same line in ODI get given as wides.

I know that, but is it likely to take wickets? You know, it is wickets that win Tests...you've got to get 20 of them, bowling a foot outside off isn't going to do that...

 

[Rich2001]

I know that, but is it likely to take wickets? You know, it is wickets that win Tests...you've got to get 20 of them, bowling a foot outside off isn't going to do that...

Yes very true, but we aren't talking that Harmison bowls a foot (or more ) outside off every ball, just that he can get away with the odd :saint: wayward ball every now and there, unlike in ODI...

Economical? Maybe he's bowling so wide the batsmen can't reach the ball?

His current Econ is 2.07 in FC matches this season... Compared to Gough 3.47.....

 

[Rik]

His current Econ is 2.07 in FC matches this season... Compared to Gough 3.47.....

Yeah but his strike rate is just under 70 which suggests he's bowling enough balls that the batsmen don't feel they need to bother with

 

[Rich2001]

Yeah but his strike rate is just under 70 :O

Actually I think your find it's only 53.5, which seems bad but look at a few of the names he is ahead of....


S.Harmison - Avg 18.50 / SR 53.5


Selection Of Fellow Div 2 Players

W.Akram (Pak) - Avg 32.71 / SR 54.8

D.Cork (Eng) - Avg 36 / SR 57.5

M.Hoggard (Eng) - Avg 37 / SR 84

A.Mullally (Eng) - Avg 42.20 / SR 79.2

K Dean (Eng) - Avg 43.50 / SR 69

J.Srinath (Ind) - Avg 46 / SR 99

A.Nel (SA) - Avg 102 / SR 177

M.Harrity (Aus) - Avg 122 / SR 220


Selection Of Div 1 Players

A.Flintoff (Eng) - Avg 28 / SR 64.5

R.Irani (Eng) - Avg 33 / SR 69

M.Clark (Aus) - Avg 36.66 / SR 66

S.Brant (Aus) - Avg 48.60 / 79.4

D.Brown (Eng) - Avg 49 / SR 84

R.Martin-Jenkins (Eng) - Avg 52 / SR 90

 

[Rik]

Actually I think your find it's only 53.5, which seems bad but look at a few of the names he is ahead of....


S.Harmison - Avg 18.50 / SR 53.5


Selection Of Fellow Div 2 Players

W.Akram (Pak) - Avg 32.71 / SR 54.8

D.Cork (Eng) - Avg 36 / SR 57.5

M.Hoggard (Eng) - Avg 37 / SR 84

A.Mullally (Eng) - Avg 42.20 / SR 79.2

K Dean (Eng) - Avg 43.50 / SR 69

J.Srinath (Ind) - Avg 46 / SR 99

A.Nel (SA) - Avg 102 / SR 177

M.Harrity (Aus) - Avg 122 / SR 220


Selection Of Div 1 Players

A.Flintoff (Eng) - Avg 28 / SR 64.5

R.Irani (Eng) - Avg 33 / SR 69

M.Clark (Aus) - Avg 36.66 / SR 66

S.Brant (Aus) - Avg 48.60 / 79.4

D.Brown (Eng) - Avg 49 / SR 84

R.Martin-Jenkins (Eng) - Avg 52 / SR 90

So your taking this on the basis of 2 CC games, and a few players who have played against the Unis? Rushing into it a bit arn't we?

I'm including his performance so far in the match against Gloucestershire in which his strike rate has jumped from 53.5 to 69.2

 

[Rich2001]

So your taking this on the basis of 2 CC games, and a few players who have played against the Unis? Rushing into it a bit arn't we?

No iam not rushing in as i said in current convo on MSN, I just tried to help Neil out on his point you can be good in one form but not the other etc,

Not once in any post have I been backing Harmison to be selected etc... Iam just going by the season so far that he can actually do the job, and quite well on his day.... IMO there are alot of better players around that deserve a chance ahead of him, but that's a different subject altogeter

 

[marc71178]

Err Marc did you say the "H" word? And i dont mean Hoggard :O

Looks like he bowled well today, and IMO, his figures in OZ didn't tell the full story about his bowling.

Also, since he has a 6 month contract, I guess he'll be there.

 

[marc71178]

So your taking this on the basis of 2 CC games, and a few players who have played against the Unis? Rushing into it a bit arn't we?

Yet you champion Johnson?

To be honest, there's a lot of bowlers who get lots of wickets in County games but are clearly not worthy of a step up - Johnson is just the latest in that line.

 

[Rik]

Yet you champion Johnson?

To be honest, there's a lot of bowlers who get lots of wickets in County games but are clearly not worthy of a step up - Johnson is just the latest in that line.

I'm pushing Johnson not only because he has proven in the last 3 seasons that he is worth the step up by taking around 70 wickets at an average of 21 in each of them...but also because when everyone was struggling to take wickets in India 2 years ago when he was on tour there and everyone was struggling to take wickets he took 4 wickets, average 20.25 in his only match whilst Ormond took 0-46 before being selected for the 1st Test in which he took 1-70. In the 1st tour match he also took 15-2-75-0...

I don't see why you are so against England giving people who have shown year after year that they are quality and deserve a go, a chance to show weather they are good enough or not. I suppose you are one of those "he hasn't shown anything but I'll give Gough a go because he's done it before" people...or is that in fact your excuse for not giving people who have performed, a chance?

Also to add to that here is the Scorecard of that match. He took the first 3 wickets leaving India A 3-7 after 2.2 overs. The players he got out were highly thought of youngsters Vinayak Mane, Gautam Gambhir and Yere Goud yet he was ignored for the rest of the tour as well as at the start of the home season. So, what more do you want? The new McGrath? Or some young "aerosol" bowler to come in and spray it all around?

 

[Rich2001]

Err Marc did you say the "H" word? And i dont mean Hoggard :O

IMO it should be the other way around, is it only me or has everyone forgot that in a entire 4 month long Ashes Tour Hoggard only managed 2 wickets in all his games... Hardly glowing review... I admit Hogs has the ablity and can do the job, his proved it in the past. However to still be picked after that without a run in the county championship to regain some form, would be highly unfair on those that have done the job week in week out for no reward.