cricket betting betway blog banner small
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: Sidebottom returns in some style!

  1. #1
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    6,465

    Sidebottom returns in some style!

    The rise of county bowler to world class performer.


    http://www.cricketweb.net/blog/features/19.php

  2. #2
    International Captain Pup Clarke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    6,595
    Good read, just goes to show that if the likes of Glen Chapple, Martin Saggers and Jon Lewis to name a very few were selected at the peak of their careers after a good few years of CC this could just of easily been them. But England's persistence in picking bowlers of the inexperience of Plunkett and Mahmood now must be realised by Fletcher as a grave mistake when there were bowlers who were doing the job at County level out there.

    I'm not for a minute suggesting these players would have been successes but surely they would have had a better chance as they've been playing for far longer and are proven better bowlers. It's also interesting to know that these performers aren't bracketed as "quick".
    Proud member of the Twenty20 is boring society


    E-Mail - liamhowgate@yahoo.co.uk
    MSN - liamhowgate@hotmail.com

  3. #3
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,709
    Yeah, good stuff. Some belated vindication for the dear old county championship, which was largely ignored if not actively disdained by the previous regime.

    One can't help but wonder if Ramprakash will be given a chance to further state the case for the domestic FC game in tests.
    Cricket Web's current Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "There is presumably such a thing as a good second-ball duck. This was not one of them." - Barney Ronay on James Vince's innings v. Australia

  4. #4
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Ramprakash and Sidebottom are hardly analogous situations really, are they?
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006


  5. #5
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Ramprakash and Sidebottom are hardly analogous situations really, are they?
    Both are/have making/made cases for international recognition by their domestic exploits; domestic form having been largely disregarded by our previous regime. It's not rocket science.

  6. #6
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    65,366
    But... but Brumby, one's a bowler and one's a batsman
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Both are/have making/made cases for international recognition by their domestic exploits; domestic form having been largely disregarded by our previous regime. It's not rocket science.
    Nah, Ramprakash has been making a case for international recognition for 2 decades now, during which time there've been at least 3 different England regimes. He's got it too, from the whole lot of 'em - just unfortunately in the first 4-and-a-half years he completely messed it up, averaging just 16. He was better later on, averaging 37, but sadly that wasn't enough - after such an awful, and prolonged, start, he couldn't really afford so much as a bad series. And on both occasions he had one, he was ditched, and there wasn't that much in the way of dissent at the decisions, certainly not the latter one.

    Sidebottom has only been making his case for perhaps 4 years at best, and was only ignored by 1 regime, and that ignoration was only unjustifiable for perhaps 2 years at best.

  8. #8
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Nah, Ramprakash has been making a case for international recognition for 2 decades now, during which time there've been at least 3 different England regimes. He's got it too, from the whole lot of 'em - just unfortunately in the first 4-and-a-half years he completely messed it up, averaging just 16. He was better later on, averaging 37, but sadly that wasn't enough - after such an awful, and prolonged, start, he couldn't really afford so much as a bad series. And on both occasions he had one, he was ditched, and there wasn't that much in the way of dissent at the decisions, certainly not the latter one.

    Sidebottom has only been making his case for perhaps 4 years at best, and was only ignored by 1 regime, and that ignoration was only unjustifiable for perhaps 2 years at best.
    Ok, whatever.

    How any of that relates to what I said is not immediately apparent tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    One can't help but wonder if Ramprakash will be given a chance to further state the case for the domestic FC game in tests.

  9. #9
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Heaven
    Posts
    8,629
    I remember hearing Sky Sports make note of Sidebottom saying that the reason that he bowled at 75-80mph in FC cricket was simply due to the amount of cricket being played meaning that a bowler cannot bowl flat out. Perhaps that this is something that the ECB could look more at; it is not as if FC cricket is a big money maker - but it is crucial for the development of future international stars. Who knows how many bowlers there are of Sidebottom's calibre who are forced to bowl at just 80mph due to the quantity of cricket.

    Whether selectors or fans admit it or not, a bowler who is bowling 85mph simply seems more talented than one bowling at 80mph, at first glance - but reducing the schedule could help people realise whether this is an issue of talent, or just stamina. The Schofield Report noted that better conversion from County to International cricket is required and reducing the quantity of matches could be a way of doing this.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Reducing the number of games is one of the oldest chestnuts on county cricket's tree. It's long been agreed that there's too much, and vitally also too much travel resulting from too many competitions.

    Reducing the number of games, in favour of more practice time, would indeed be nice. The amount of time spent saying it'd be a good idea while nothing happens, though, suggests it's something far easier said than done.

  11. #11
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Ok, whatever.

    How any of that relates to what I said is not immediately apparent tho.
    Because if Ramprakash were to be recalled and succeed, it'd not really be anything of a furthering for the cause of the domestic game. Ramprakash indeed has long been used by those ignoramuses who argue that the domestic game is not something which should be taken note of in interntional selections.

  12. #12
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Because if Ramprakash were to be recalled and succeed, it'd not really be anything of a furthering for the cause of the domestic game. Ramprakash indeed has long been used by those ignoramuses who argue that the domestic game is not something which should be taken note of in interntional selections.
    Ok, so to summerise, a bloke who has had an unprecented run of domestic first-class form transferring that form to the test arena isn't indicatative of the value of selecting players who've performed well domestically?

    You can see why I'm struggling to discern the logic in your argument here...

  13. #13
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    As I've said elsewhere, Ramprakash has done nothing in the previous 2 seasons that he hasn't done before. He's simply taken something he's always done (dominance of the domestic scene) to a new level.

    The fact that he can change good to very good at one level doesn't neccessarily have any impact on whether he can change poor to good at a higher.

    Ramprakash has already been a Test failure. Should he become a success this summer, his case would do more for a "can elevate one's mental aptitude and should never, ever be written-off and always given more chances" pontification than a "pick players who perform at domestic level" one.

    Ramprakash's outstanding domestic form won't matter one iyota on his chances of Test success. His Test success or otherwise depends on the disposal of what has previously held him back, and what has previously held him back has nothing to do with the domestic level.

  14. #14
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    65,366
    Richard, one thing I've always been curious about, what is your actual contention with regards to picking players for tests (or ODIs while we're at it) based on their domestic records? Would Badrinath have made your Indian test team ahead of Yuvraj (and Kaif) for example?

  15. #15
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gone too soon
    Posts
    46,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    As I've said elsewhere, Ramprakash has done nothing in the previous 2 seasons that he hasn't done before. He's simply taken something he's always done (dominance of the domestic scene) to a new level.
    Well, as your sentence acknowledges, by doing something that's unprecedented he has done something that he (& by definition anyone else) hasn't done before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The fact that he can change good to very good at one level doesn't neccessarily have any impact on whether he can change poor to good at a higher.

    Ramprakash has already been a Test failure. Should he become a success this summer, his case would do more for a "can elevate one's mental aptitude and should never, ever be written-off and always given more chances" pontification than a "pick players who perform at domestic level" one.

    Ramprakash's outstanding domestic form won't matter one iyota on his chances of Test success. His Test success or otherwise depends on the disposal of what has previously held him back, and what has previously held him back has nothing to do with the domestic level.
    *sigh*

    It can't be just me, can it?

    Look, if Ramprakash hadn't scored runs in the county championship he wouldn't even be in the frame for a recall.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Caption This : Graeme Swann/ Ryan Sidebottom
    By andruid in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 21-01-2008, 06:35 PM
  2. Ryan Sidebottom
    By Richard in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 31-10-2007, 09:23 AM
  3. Mascarenhas replaces Sidebottom
    By James in forum Twenty20 World Cup
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-09-2007, 08:26 AM
  4. Anderson, Sidebottom secure contracts
    By James in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-09-2007, 04:09 PM
  5. Superman Returns!
    By Anil in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 29-06-2006, 02:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •