Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Jerome Taylor is West Indies strike bowler. He consistently outperforms his teammates, I do not think that Bravo will suddenly jump to that sort of level of performance.
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When Is The Time Coming?
- Thread starter gettingbetter
- Start date
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Jerome Taylor is a young strike bowler, still trying to find his feet at international level. If another bowler in the team has a better average, I wouldn't automatically consider him a better bowler. If Taylor were a veteran of 50 Tests or something of the sort, your comment would be viable. As it is, it's an oversimplistic analysis.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't see what I have oversimplified. Dwayne Bravo is a military medium pacer who does little with the ball. What he does do with a ball comes and goes on a match to match basis; yes, due to conditions but also due to him not having the pace to take the new ball and just an inconsistency of seam position (as well as other factors). He has no constant method of line and length to get wickets, this is something which Harmison always suffered from and it is why he cannot pick up wickets from anything but a short ball when he is not in form. Brett Lee gets batsmen with the fullish outswinger, Sidebottom catches the edge with the one which angles across and gets a majority LBW with the inswinger, etc...
Bravo lacks bounce, so he can't push a batsman back and catch the edge and he does not have the correct trajectory or swing to bowl batsmen or trap them without foot movement - caught behind or LBW. He can only get wickets either with his surprisingly vicious bouncer (not likely that he can build a career on an 80mph bouncer though) or by grinding them out with good accuracy, with an unsupportive (ie. expensive in this case) bowling attack, I don't see that happening.
Jerome Taylor has many of the aforementioned ingrediants and takes the new ball, I fail to see how Bravo's slightly better accuracy - which I assume is what you feel he has going for him will account for a severe lack of wicket taking ability in reducing his Test average.
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Bravo is young and still finding his voice at international level. Taylor is even younger and less experienced and used in a totally different role. Oversimplified.
I'd also be very surprised if Taylor's average stays above 30 for years to come.
It's incredible then that he's dismissed some high quality batsmen without the use of either of those things.
Admittedly, from all reports, he has stopped working on his bowling, but my statement was about ability. And having seen Bravo extensively before he entered international cricket and since he has entered international cricket, I still believe he has that ability. He's neither as quick nor does he get the movement he did for Trinidad and Tobago back in the day, but he's still a very intelligent bowler and is capable of bowling long pressure-filled spells. He can reverse-swing the ball, has a sharp bouncer, has a good yorker, and (when in the mood) a lot of patience. That's more than enough to achieve a low-30s average.
I'm not calling Bravo a world-beater or anything similarly contentious. I'm calling him a middle of the road, useful bowler. If used in a 5th bowler capacity, which he should be more often than he has been, he would be a very handy part of a decent attack.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
It likely won't, but I still don't think that Bravo can perform better than Taylor is now.
Hardly, since having a set dismissal is how you gain consistency, not the ability to take 'some' wickets.
Admittedly, from all reports, he has stopped working on his bowling, but my statement was about ability. And having seen Bravo extensively before he entered international cricket and since he has entered international cricket, I still believe he has that ability. He's neither as quick nor does he get the movement he did for Trinidad and Tobago back in the day, but he's still a very intelligent bowler and is capable of bowling long pressure-filled spells. He can reverse-swing the ball, has a sharp bouncer, has a good yorker, and (when in the mood) a lot of patience. That's more than enough to achieve a low-30s average.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that it is and consequently think that he will not achieve such an average.
On another note, Taylor really is improving with every game. You should hold on to him, future world top 5 bowler for me.
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I can't be bothered to reiterate my points further.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
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gettingbetter
State Vice-Captain
What about AB deVilliers? I'm not sure if was ever touted with as much potential as someone like Bell or Yuvraj, but since the West Indies series (in the West Indies), he hasn't really done anything of note either. I thought he would of been averaging higher than he is.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Yuvraj Singh, in Test cricket. He was our best ODI players for about two years, but could never get going in Tests. Obviously the opportunities were scarce, but he still had enough of them for him to start to capitalize.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Well his already cemented his place as an extremely fine one day player and now that his been given the number six test role there is no reason why he shouldn’t push on.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I've always thought ABdeV every bit as good as either TBH. And what's more, he looked fairly surely up to Test cricket at 20-21, which is damn unusual. Unfortunately, he's not kicked-on, not helped at all of course by such mad yoyoing as he's been subjected to.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Nay, should be great
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Collins Obuya's for mine. He has not quite convinced as a bowler in the One day game since that 5 fer against Sri Lanka. In fact he dropped down the pecking order as a spin bowling option behind Varaiya, Tikolo and Kamande. Also he's probably the most watchable of Kenya's middle order batsmen and hos current ODI batting average I do not think does justice to his ability.
Jungle Jumbo
International Vice-Captain
Nah, Obuya may stick around and score a few runs, but he won't set the world alight. He'll just hold a place down, nothing more, nothing less, until someone better comes along. Obviously as a bowler he's pretty much a spent force these days.
gettingbetter
State Vice-Captain
Where do you think he should be batting?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I've always wanted him to open with Graeme Smith in both forms of the game and it's always annoyed me greatly that he's ever done anything else in Tests or ODIs.
If anything, his time came a few years too early. Really, if he was 21 now, with Herschelle Gibbs pretty much out of the way, it'd be perfect. But Gibbs was still unquestionably worth a place when he first arrived. And as a result, both he and Gibbs were mucked-around for at least 2 years.
And that's before we even mention Boeta Dippenaar, whose entire career could basically fit this thread's question.
If anything, his time came a few years too early. Really, if he was 21 now, with Herschelle Gibbs pretty much out of the way, it'd be perfect. But Gibbs was still unquestionably worth a place when he first arrived. And as a result, both he and Gibbs were mucked-around for at least 2 years.
And that's before we even mention Boeta Dippenaar, whose entire career could basically fit this thread's question.
gettingbetter
State Vice-Captain
He's had an extended run and failed at opening, looking at his last 3 years (excluding the series on the roads in the Windies), he averaged a paltry 19.55.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He didn't exactly have an extended run, though - he was dropped down the order after his poor series against Australia and has only ever opened in fits and starts, and mostly as a makeshift option, thereafter.
He should have done better and forced them to keep him at the top of the order, yes, certainly. But I wish he'd just been left there after the Australia series.
He should have done better and forced them to keep him at the top of the order, yes, certainly. But I wish he'd just been left there after the Australia series.