Your All Time XI'S test/one day

[Ikki]

He's not though. All you have to do is watch him play. You can roll off any statistic you want but there's no way that he's the one of the very greatest opening batsman ever. Excellent player, excellent career but you have to do that little more to get in the most exclusive of clubs. I guess you'll take this as a slight on Hayden or depreciating his worth somewhat, but I reckon I rate him one of the highest on this forum but to start going on about he's in the same league as those few is the result of either as I said before, defending him so much that you start doing it when it's unwarranted or extreme bias. Judging by the tone of your posts including the condescending nature and how strung up you've got about a simple question it, I'd say both.

LOL, are you kidding me? Seriously? How can you profess yourself as a fan when you wrote the above? How is what you said a simple question? You twisted my words in saying "so when you say this, do you mean that?" I find that offensive.

Did you see Hobbs? Did you see Hutton? I've seen Gavaskar and I'd pick Hayden over Sunil everyday if it was just off sight. Let's remember, when Sunil was facing the 'great' attacks he didn't do so great.

If you've actually watched Hayden when batting then you'd hardly seen him struggling. He's been scoring runs for fun.

How can you not rate Hayden in that top tier of batsmen? He has at various times been the best batsmen in our team - like right now. This when there are and have been guys like Ponting, Waugh, Gilchrist, Hussey... how can some of these names be in the top echelon of batting, even better batsmen than some of those openers, yet Hayden can be better than these guys but not the openers you're comparing him with...what else can he do mate? Score even more runs? If you take out his first 8 tests in which he was lost in the 90s Hayden averages 56.

Hayden has done what the others have done if not more. He's scored against more sides, against better bowlers and bowling attacks, at a higher SR (and often average), at a higher century rate and still can't compare? That sounds nuts! It may not frustrate you but it sure as hell frustrates me.

 

[silentstriker]

Hayden has done what the others have done if not more. He's scored against more sides, against better bowlers and bowling attacks, at a higher SR (and often average)

Has he though? New Zealand, South Africa, England. The first two where bowlers do well, he doesn't. And when bowlers do well in England, he doesn't. And the fact that he still manages to be the best opener since 2000 is full credit to him. That's why he is a very good player. All time XI good? Nah, no way.

 

[garypleavin]

England All Time XI

1 - Len Hutton(c)
2 - Jack Hobbs
3 - Wally Hammond
4 - Ken Barrington
5 - Denis Compton
6 - Graham Thorpe
7 - Ian Botham
8 - Allan Knott(wk)
9 - Harold Larwood
10 - Fred Trueman
11 - Sydney Barnes

World All Time XI

1 - Jack Hobbs
2 - Sunil Gavaskar
3 - Don Bradman
4 - Sachin Tendulkar
5 - Viv Richards
6 - Garry Sobers
7 - Adam Gilchrist(wk)
8 - Ian Botham
9 - Shane Warne
10 - Malcolm Marshall
11 - Dennis Lillee

 

[silentstriker]

LOL, are you kidding me? Seriously? How can you profess yourself as a fan when you wrote the above?

What is that supposed to mean? Because I'm Indian, I have to rate Gavaskar above Hobbs?

 

[pasag]

LOL, are you kidding me? Seriously? How can you profess yourself as a fan when you wrote the above? How is what you said a simple question? You twisted my words in saying "so when you say this, do you mean that?" I find that offensive.

Did you see Hobbs? Did you see Hutton? I've seen Gavaskar and I'd pick Hayden over Sunil everyday if it was just off sight. Let's remember, when Sunil was facing the 'great' attacks he didn't do so great.

If you've actually watched Hayden when batting then you'd hardly seen him struggling. He's been scoring runs for fun.

How can you not rate Hayden in that top tier of batsmen? He has at various times been the best batsmen in our team - like right now. This when there are and have been guys like Ponting, Waugh, Gilchrist, Hussey... how can some of these names be in the top echelon of batting, even better batsmen than some of those openers, yet Hayden can be better than these guys but not the openers you're comparing him with...what else can he do mate? Score even more runs? If you take out his first 8 tests in which he was lost in the 90s Hayden averages 56.

Hayden has done what the others have done if not more. He's scored against more sides, against better bowlers and bowling attacks, at a higher SR (and often average), at a higher century rate and still can't compare? That sounds nuts! It may not frustrate you but it sure as hell frustrates me.

Not going to bother with this "how do you consider yourself a fan" crap. It's apparent in many of your debates with people. You take things too personally, and feel everyone is trying to attack you and your knowledge of the game. Have seen this righteous indignation time and time again. Anyone questions you and go off. Learn some basic skills in civility, and then get back to me when you don't sound like someone frothing at the mouth at their computer screen.

 

[Ikki]

Has he though? New Zealand, South Africa, England. The first two where bowlers do well, he doesn't. And when bowlers do well in England, he doesn't. And the fact that he still manages to be the best opener since 2000 is full credit to him. That's why he is a very good player. All time XI good? Nah, no way.

This starting to sound Silly. Remember, since 2000 he has averaged 49 in S.Africa. He hasn't done well in New Zealand and England but that's fine. Sobers didn't do well in Pakistan or New Zealand either. So Sobers isn't All-Time XI good either eh? Nah, mustn't be.

This is what I mean when I say it is starting to sound like a bad joke.

What is that supposed to mean? Because I'm Indian, I have to rate Gavaskar above Hobbs?

Um, what are you talking about Manan? I quoted Pasag.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Grace (c)
Hobbs
Bradman
Hammond
Sobers
Ponting
Gilchrist (wk)
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Barnes

Might be a bit England-biased, but the top three alone would completely destroy any bowling attack.

Tendulkar
Gilchrist (wk)
Lara
Richards
Abbas
Bevan
Imran (c)
Akram
Warne
Garner
Murali

 

[Ikki]

Not going to bother with this "how do you consider yourself a fan" crap. It's apparent in many of your debates with people. You take things too personally, and feel everyone is trying to attack you and your knowledge of the game. Have seen this righteous indignation time and time again. Anyone questions you and go off. Learn some basic skills in civility, and then get back to me when you don't sound like someone frothing at the mouth at their computer screen.

I am not taking it personal, I just find your assertions truly silly. They just do not hold. You have not presented anything factual in the entire engagement between yourself and I in the past few pages. How can you expect me to take your argument seriously when you don't? How can you consider yourself a Hayden fan if you're denying what I am saying and impervious to a lot of others I haven't mentioned here.

To me, the only basis for your saying you're a Hayden fan is to sound like you're unbiased because if you really are a fan I don't see how you can ignore what I am telling you here. A lot of it are facts and plain statistics. Verifiable to yourself.

Here is another fact, Sunil averages very well against Australia, but he scored his runs against largely poor attacks that at best consisted Thompson and no other bowler of real standing. In the 80s we were more than poor, we were **** and Gavaskar scored there too. But when Lillee came back in the 80s for one series Sunil only averaged 20. Even against the 'good' teams there are things like this that you have to consider (also his record against the Windies), then also consider that there were poorer bowling attacks then than now in the other teams...and he still averages less than Hayden.

See, you should know these things before passing some judgment that Hayden is not in the same 'mould' as these guys. What's worse is you accuse my reasoning for backing Hayden because of a silly to-and-fro with Richard? That because I argued so long and hard there I can't let that go to waste? Come on.

 

[Jono]

I am not taking it personal, I just find your assertions truly silly. They just do not hold. You have not presented anything factual in the entire engagement between yourself and I in the past few pages. How can you expect me to take your argument seriously when you don't? How can you consider yourself a Hayden fan if you're denying what I am saying and impervious to a lot of others I haven't mentioned here.

I'm a huge Yuvraj fan, yet I wouldn't dare argue that Yuvraj is a test class batsman yet, and if an Indian fan suggested that Yuvraj the real deal at test level I'd probably refute his assertion.

Pasag is simply doing the same. He likes and rates Hayden, but not as an all-time great. Not exactly groundbreaking.

 

[Ikki]

I'm a huge Yuvraj fan, yet I wouldn't dare argue that Yuvraj is a test class batsman yet, and if an Indian fan suggested that Yuvraj the real deal at test level I'd probably refute his assertion.

Pasag is simply doing the same. He likes and rates Hayden, but not as an all-time great. Not exactly groundbreaking.

My friend that is an entirely different comparison. The correlation between your Yuvraj example and this is weak. For there is little evidence to suggest what you're suggesting for Yuvraj but a tonne of it for Hayden.

But to be clearer, Pasag here is proclaiming himself one of his most fervent fans yet unable to agree with me. What is he disagreeing with here? I have no clue because he has not addressed or even argued facts.

What I have said is great evidence to prove the positive, with regards to Hayden's status as an all-time great. To simply dismiss this information is hardly befitting a self-proclaimed "huge fan".

Because that's like Yuvraj having a good case of being called a "test class batsman" and someone arguing something reasonable and you - the big fan - still denying it because of no other reason than it doesn't make sense to you.

As aforesaid, sounds simply to buy the middle-ground, the "I am not biased but..." routine.

I have absolutely no problem with Pasag picking whoever he wants. His choice. But to make a comment on my list, try to digress by mentioning 'how I argue' instead of what I argue is just poor form for me. First accusing me of arguing because I did a long one with Richard. Then saying that I get so hyped up that I can't stand debate on my points. Then he says I am getting personal. The irony... mentioning all that as if to take away from what I said because apparently I can't be logical...this when all I have done is state facts/stats. Instead I am frothing at the mouth.

If you want to make comments like "x is not in the same mould as y" expect people to question it.

 

[haroon510]

Pakistan XI Test

1 Saeed Anwar
2 Aamir sohail
3 younis khan
4 Inzimum Ul Haq
5 Mohmmed Yousuf
6 Ijaz Ahmad
7 Rashid Latif
8 Imran khan (c)
9 Wasim akram
10 Waqar Younis
11 Saqlin Mushtaq/ Mushtaq ahmad

Pakistan XI ODI

1 Saeed anwar
2 Aamir sohail
3 Ijaz Ahmad
4 Inzimam Ul Haq
5 Mohmmed Yousuf
6 abdul razzaq
7 moin khan
8 wasim akram
9 waqar younis
10 saqlin Mushtaq
11 shoaib akhter

World XI test

1 Mathew Hayden
2 saeed anwar
3 Viv Richards
4 Sachin Tendulkar
5 Brian Lara
6 Inzimam Ul Haq
7 Adam Gilgrist
8 Imran khan (c)
9 Wasim Akram
10 Glen Mcgrath
11 Muttiah Muralitharan/ Warne

Word XI ODI

1 Adam Gilchrist
2 Saeed anwar
3 Viv Richards
4 Sachin Tendulker
5 Brain Lara
6 Inzimam ul Haq
7 Lance Klusnar
8 Shaun Pollock
9 Wasim akram
11 Glen Mcgrath
12 Murali/ Warne

this is based on what i have seen.. i dont rate players that i havn't watch ( for instance Hobb, Bradman and soo on) high just based on their record.. record wise both Kallis and Dravid have a good record but i don't want them in my XI because of their bating style..that is one of the reasn i havn't pick bradman in my XIs ...i havn't watched Bradman and soo on playing so i can't just pick them based on their record..

 

[Flem274*]

Far too much to choose from for an all time XI including all countries so I'll make it easier and choose an NZ one as per usual.

Glenn Turner
Stewart Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
Chris Cairns
Brendan McCullum
Bruce Taylor/Daniel Vettori (depending on conditions)
Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Stuff it I'll give a world one a go:

Hobbs
Suttcliffe
Bradman
Hammond
Tendulkar
Richards
Khan
Healy
Hadlee
Marshall
Murali

The reason there is no Sobers is because I rebel against the trend. Also fast bowling allrounders are cooler than batting allrounders. And from a technical view he brings more balance to the side.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

All Time Test XI's

Australia

1. A.Morris
2. S.Barnes
3. D.Bradman (*)
4. G.Chappell
5. A.Border
6. K.Miller
7. A.Gilchrist (+)
8. R.Lindwall
9. S.Warne
10. B.O'Reilly
11. G.McGrath

England

1. J.Hobbs
2. W.Grace (*)
3. D.Compton
4. W.Hammond
5. D.Gower
6. I.Botham
7. A.Knott (+)
8. F.Trueman
9. H.Verity
10. A.Bedser
11.S.Barnes

India

1. S.Gavaskar
2. V.Merchant
3. R.Dravid
4. S.Tendulkar
5. L.Amarath
6. F.Engineer (+)
7. Kapil Dev (*)
8. A.Kumble
9. A.Singh
10. M.Nissar
11. B.Bedi

New Zealand

1. S.Dempster
2. B.Sutcliffe
3. A.Jones
4. M.Crowe
5. J.Reid (*)
6. M.Donnelly
7. K.Wadsworth (+)
8. R.Hadlee
9. C.Grimmett
10. S.Bond
11. J.Cowie

Pakistan

1. Hanif Mohommad
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Zaheer Abbas
4. Inzaman-ul-Haq
5. Javed Miandad
6. Imran Kahn (*)
7. Wasim Akram
8. Wasim Bari (+)
9. Fazal Mahmood
10. Waqar Younis
11. Abdul Qadir

South Africa

1. B.Richards
2. J.McGlew
3. G.Pollock
4. J.Kallis
5. D.Nourse
6. C.Rice (*)
7. A.Faulkner
8. D.Lindsay (+)
9. S.Pollock
10. M.Procter
11. A.Donald

West Indies

1. D.Haynes
2. G.Greenidge
3. V.Richards
4. G.Headley
5. F.Worrell (*)
6. G.Sobers
7. J.Dujon (+)
8. M.Marshall
9. C.Ambrose
10. W.Hall
11. M.Holding

World

1. A.Morris
2. J.Hobbs
3. D.Bradman (*)
4. A.Border
5. G.Sobers
6. K.Miller
7. A.Gilchrist (+)
8. R.Hadlee
9. R.Lindwall
10. B.O'Reilly
11. C.Grimmett

All Time ODI XI's (Including those who never played ODI's)

Australia

1. A.Gilchrist (+)
2. K.Miller
3. D.Bradman
4. C.Macartney
5. N.Harvey
6. M.Bevan
7. S.Waugh (*)
8. R.Lindwall
9. S.Warne
10. B.O'Reilly
11. G.McGrath

Emgland

1. W.Grace (*)
2. J.Hobbs
3. W.Hammond
4. D.Compton
5. K.Pietersen
6. I.Botham
7. A.Knott (+)
8. F.Trueman
9. H.Verity
10. A.Bedser
11. S.Barnes

India

1. S.Tendulkar
2. V.Sehwag
3. R.Dravid
4. L.Amarath
5. V.Hazare
6. Kapil Dev (*)
7. M.Dhoni (+)
8. R.Nadkarni
9. A.Kumble
10. A.Singh
11. M.Nissar

New Zealand

1. B.Suttcliffe
2. N.Astle
3. M.Crowe (*)
4. J.Reid
5. M.Donnelly
6. C.Cairns
7. K.Wadsworth (+)
8. R.Hadlee
9. D.Vettori
10. C.Grimmett
11. S.Bond

Pakistan

1. Saeed Anwar
2. Zaheer Abbas
3. Javed Miandad
4. Inzaman-ul-Haq
5. Imran Kahn (*)
6. Mustaq Mohommad
7. Abdul Razzaq
8. Wasim Akram
9. Wasim Bari (+)
10. Waqar Younis
11. Fazal Mahmood

South Africa

1. G.Smith (*)
2. B.Richards
3. G.Pollock
4. J.Kallis
5. J.Rhodes
6. C.Bland
7. A.Faulkner
8. M.Boucher (+)
9. S.Pollock
10. M.Procter
11. A.Donald

West Indies

1. D.Haynes
2. G.Greenidge
3. V.Richards (*)
4. B.Lara
5. E.Weekes
6. G.Sobers
7. J.Dujon (+)
8. M.Marshall
9. C.Ambrose
10. J.Garner
11. M.Holding

World

1. A.Gilchrist (+)
2. K.Miller
3. D.Bradman (*)
4. V.Richards
5. G.Sobers
6. M.Bevan
7. R.Hadlee
8. R.Lindwall
9. Wasim Akram
10. C.Grimmett
11. J.Garner

 

[oz_fan]

Test XI
1. Jack Hobbs
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Don Bradman
4. Wally Hammond
5. Brian Lara
6. Gary Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Imran Khan
9. Malcolm Marshall
10. Shane Warne
11. Dennis Lillee

OD XI
1. Adam Gilchrist
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Brian Lara
5. Jacques Kallis
6. Michael Bevan
7. Shaun Pollock
8. Wasim Akram
9. Waqar Younis
10. Joel Garner
11. Muttiah Muralitharin

 

[ret]

A world X1 from the ones currently playing cricket

- Hayden
- Sehwag
- Ponting
- Tendulkar
- Kallis
- Pieterson
- Sangakara [WK]
- Lee
- Akthar
- Bond
- Murali

that would be good for both ODIs n Tests

 

[Outside Edge]

Thanks for the reply's I have based my Test XI on the era I have been watching cricket.

TEST XI

1.S.Gavaskar
2.G.Boycott
3.V.Richards
4.S.Tendulkar
5.S.Waugh (Capt)
6.A.Gilchrist (Wk)
7.R.Hadlee
8.W.Akram
9.S.Warne (Muralitharan)
10.G.McGrath
11.C.Walsh

 

[silentstriker]

No Marshall?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

1. Len Hutton
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Don Bradman
4. Viv Richards
5. Sachin Tendulkar
6. Garry Sobers
7. Alan Knott
8. Shane Warne
9. Malcolm Marshall
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

 

[silentstriker]

Pretty good XI, but you'd want another pace bowler or a bowling all rounder of some kind, no? Of course, if you're playing on uncovered pitches....

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Pretty good XI, but you'd want another pace bowler or a bowling all rounder of some kind, no? Of course, if you're playing on uncovered pitches....

I just picked the best five batsman, the best allrounder, the best wicketkeeper, the best two paceman and the best two spinners. You could giggle it about and bring in Imran, Miller or Gilchrist but I don't think my team would be beaten too often on any pitch.